TRAMORE WATERFORD 12/10/07 BIG BASS SESSION

[Sonaghan]

[quote="Dave Jolly]Yeah.... three.... :wink:[/quote]

:lol: :lol:

Maybe it's time to rethink the whole way we view conservation.

I totally agree. JimH has posted an interesting quote about striped bass conservation on another topic that is well worth the read.

A couple of points definitely worth more thought that have been mentioned are:

1. Length rather than weight should be used to assess bass size, as length measurements are easier and quicker to undertake and more easily proven with photographic evidence.

2. An upper bass size limit should be introduced as well as a lower bass size limit.

It would be very interesting to carry out a survey such as JimH mentions on the opinions of anglers on these issues.

[teacher]

It would be very interesting to carry out a survey such as JimH mentions on the opinions of anglers on these issues.

This is a really good idea. Let's do it.

[padge73]

Have to agree that would be interesting! At a time of year when the big fish have showed up I think there is added responsibility on the angler. At the end of the day it is down to personal choice but a practical point is that these large fish generally don't even make good eating.

[Mr_Green]

Lads i have to say if i was a new member i wouldnt come back, everytime its borderline harrasment...

[pete]

No disrespect Dave (Mr.G)but I'd have to disagree with you there, as a site community we seem to have come along way on this topic and I haven't seen the vitriolic stuff that used to typically greet a report like that. If anything I've found the discussion here really informative and to be honest it's nice to read the uncensored opinions of other thinking anglers, even if I mightn't actually agree with them. A series of replies of well done old boy, jolly good show, great catch mate are nice surely but it doesn't really make for interesting reading.....

For my own opinion, for what its worth I would never kill that amount of big bass(if ever lucky enough to get ones that size :lol: ), I would just feel terribly guilty afterwards. Although as Eoghan pointed out how many of us in the rush of excitement have knocked one too many on the head. I've done it with sea trout and afterwards regretted it but you live and learn.

Anyhow....great catch tbag :lol:

[KK]

Well if Tbag alreay regreats posting his report what does that tell us????

That when he was unaware of there spawnning cycle alot of people jumped on him and said "it was unacceptable to keep a basds for a friend"
"he didnt need a carcas for a speciamen" now these are fair points but not to someone who was unaware of the situation. It would be more enjoyable for everyone if yas just sent them 1 message about the spawning cycle and there growth rate (if they are unaware) so they can make an educated decision on there own without haven pages of information put in there face. If he decideds to kill the fish after that its still his choice as he caught it.

[iona]

what a haul. i think there's not many more fish that size caught in Scotland all YEAR.

having read all the conservation talk i have to agree that it would make sense to have an upper limit. i have taken a couple of fish in the 6-7lb range and didn't think they were that great and now i much prefer the 2-3lb sized fish which will feed 2 easily.

now i carry 2 camera's for any capture so if i ever catch a fish that good it can be returned.

what i would say to anyone returning these specimens i find bass + other species when they get to specimen size tend to be spent by the time they get to shore and great care is needed in the handling. we find if one person holds them in the water while your friend does all the camera and scales work helps. nothing worse in a specimen floating away after you have tried to do the right thing.

as for speaking out i don't see it as criticism but more of a chance to inform and educate to a different way. IMHO.

[Mr_Green]

i wouldnt kill that many bass myself, i even felt guilty killing the 9.5lber i had... but i suppose my posts are a collective over the past year ive been a member...ive seen some god awful replies to anglers who have unwittingly posted what was a great nights fishing... like its been said its a public forum, uncensored opinions, but then again that word uncensored is fickle? im just really peeved about this and every time this happens... makes my mouse wander over the X botton...everytime a post like this comes up WE create an US and THEM scenario, which in turn segregates us as anglers.. i suppose in these caes what the eye doesnt see doesnt hurt :roll:

[corbyeire]

i just want to remark that this thread has been very good - for all sides - which would have never happened without tbags instigation

i guarantee you tbag - there are plenty of people here now who want to hear how you get on the next night and good luck with it :D

[JimH]

This thread has survived without the usual provocative posts and i feel that tbag has done a good job where many would have simply reacted petulantly.

There are some valuable posts in here from educated people who understand the nature of things biological and recognise the importance of conservation - we can all learn something.

In a world that is been rapidly destroyed, any attempt made to preserve it is a good one and surely exhibits foresight.

Advocating the C+R principles doesnt neccessarily make you a fanatic or a disciple or a radical it simply offers an alternative.

I think you will find that the good posts in here are made by regular and valuable contributors.

[rapala]

...we always return fish at thismark since we started fishing it 3 years ago as we tink it will pay off as we are convinced there is a huge fish to be taken there if we dont fish it out.its common sence and its starting to show a few decent fish this year ,weights are well up on last two years.if people want to give out leave them,we could take bass everynite out of the place and have nothing there in few months time,but we havent or wont,we plan on keeping our mark as good as it is now.or better.

Tag and release experiments have proved bass like this return to the same areas each year. Fact.
These fish now wont be, so although you aint broke any laws them 4 fish are 4 fish less to become the monsters they clearly had the genes to prove were well on their way to becoming.

Mod Edit

...and all for what?...a bellyload of feeds that wont be as tasty as a few smaller fish...a load of stick on here from people you dont even know.... a pretty sad photo of 4 dead fish in someones kitchen, and heres the real sad bit - a peice of paper from some blokes in suits.
Its obviously a fantastic catch of bass, but come on lads, please think a bit more about what you are saying here and what it is you are really trying to achieve, cos actions always speak louder than words.

Lookin forward to hearing of you catching more big fish but using your noggins a bit more by putting them back so they can to grow into real monsters.

[JimC]

and heres the real sad bit - a peice of paper from some blokes in suits

Why is that sad?

[rapala]

[Why is that sad?

Because in my opinion catching a ruck of big bass like these is a great achievement in itself and if you are confident in your methods, and appreciative of the true value in angling terms of what you have achieved, you shouldnt need someone on a committee somewhere to give you a piece of paper to tell you so. But thats the specimen certification system for you - unless you are geared up for it, it goes against conservation.

[Eoghan]

i wouldnt kill that many bass myself, i even felt guilty killing the 9.5lber i had... but i suppose my posts are a collective over the past year ive been a member...ive seen some god awful replies to anglers who have unwittingly posted what was a great nights fishing... like its been said its a public forum, uncensored opinions, but then again that word uncensored is fickle? im just really peeved about this and every time this happens... makes my mouse wander over the X botton...everytime a post like this comes up WE create an US and THEM scenario, which in turn segregates us as anglers.. i suppose in these caes what the eye doesnt see doesnt hurt :roll:

Would you say then it is fair to say you got caught up in the moment with the 9.5Ib bass..? On reflection if you could turn back time would you have thrown it back..?

When I caught my one and only specimen I hadnt a camera and the thought did cross my mind to keep it but thank God I didnt.

I dont think there were any bad reactions to the post, just some ideas and thoughts on conservation.
If Bass grew quickly it wouldnt be a problem but its just when you think how old a fish that size is and what its been through to get to that size - isnt a photo good enough and then to let it go again..?

[cortaz]

nice catch there guys, 8) ye got away lightly postin that pic. :) i posted a pic. like that before and was nearly killed, some ppl. were shouting , lynch em, lynch em :) i was wonderin what the f. are they ravein on about.., i now understand, i hope in time yeah will to... keep posting there are lots of very good anglers on this site and u will learn a lot, i did.................... UP WATERFORD :) :) :) :)

[rapala]

The famous Bream n Bass shots on the kitchen floor! Aye Cortaz - I think I may have been one of em!
Back then we were all pretty new to forums and in all fairness I think a lot of us have now 'been there done that' re getting het-up about the killing bass thing, and some middle ground has been found.
Big bass will always be kept by anglers as is there right, and rather than getting hysterical about it its up to them thats bothered enough about it, to try and give them thats doin the takin the benefit of any knowledge they might have to try and persuade them why these big'uns should go back.
As you know yourself Cortaz, at the end of the day its upto the angler - some people can see past the trophy shots to the bigger picture and learn to like letting them go to grow bigger to catch the next time.
Kinda makes sense - if it was all about take take take and eatin em we may aswell set nets, but with bass and bass angling these days its more about the thrill of the sport on light tackle.
A couple of years ago wars nearly broke out on UK forums but now its surprising to see a lot of those who argued to the death about why its OK to kill big bass or publicise them little-known marks on the internet have now changed their ways and will now often side for anglers keeping the odd reasonable sized bass, and keeping certain areas quiet.
Times are changing, internet forums are new we are all learning... :)

[JimC]

Rapala:

and heres the real sad bit - a peice of paper from some blokes in suits.

Because in my opinion catching a ruck of big bass like these is a great achievement in itself and if you are confident in your methods, and appreciative of the true value in angling terms of what you have achieved, you shouldnt need someone on a committee somewhere to give you a piece of paper to tell you so. But thats the specimen certification system for you - unless you are geared up for it, it goes against conservation.

Of course catching such fish is a great achievement and well done lads. What is wrong with an angler wanting to certify his fish (the only sure way of proving what was caught was caught and not a another “fishy tale”)? It is also nice to get recognition from your peers: fellow specimen captors. I’ve yet to hear somebody at the annual awards get grief that he should have released the fish if he didn’t do so.

There are many of us that are geared up for the system and are happy with it. You don’t even need a camera to claim a specimen bass; a measuring tape and a certified scale are all that’s required. The ISFC is a reputable body, and a voluntary body to boot. In fact, on your side of the pond the IFSC model has been copied. The IFSC’s system, while not perfect, is constantly evolving to enable anglers release fish if they so want to. On the marine list of nearly 70 species the actual body is required for around 20 and these are for species where identification can be difficult eg. the two species of garfish. The IFSC has such a good reputation because of their rigid rules/policies.

As for the “suits”, last year I met one Eamonn de Buitleir, a man I have tremendous admiration for and was delighted to be able to have a chat with an Irish icon. I doubt I would have had the chance to meet the man other than for the IFSC.
You are entitled to your opinion and fair play to you for having it, but please do not express it in such a way as to belittle my efforts and the efforts of other committed anglers.

[cazbass]

The famous Bream n Bass shots on the kitchen floor! Aye Cortaz - I think I may have been one of em!
Back then we were all pretty new to forums and in all fairness I think a lot of us have now 'been there done that' re getting het-up about the killing bass thing, and some middle ground has been found.
Big bass will always be kept by anglers as is there right, and rather than getting hysterical about it its up to them thats bothered enough about it, to try and give them thats doin the takin the benefit of any knowledge they might have to try and persuade them why these big'uns should go back.
As you know yourself Cortaz, at the end of the day its upto the angler - some people can see past the trophy shots to the bigger picture and learn to like letting them go to grow bigger to catch the next time.
Kinda makes sense - if it was all about take take take and eatin em we may aswell set nets, but with bass and bass angling these days its more about the thrill of the sport on light tackle.
A couple of years ago wars nearly broke out on UK forums but now its surprising to see a lot of those who argued to the death about why its OK to kill big bass or publicise them little-known marks on the internet have now changed their ways and will now often side for anglers keeping the odd reasonable sized bass, and keeping certain areas quiet.
Times are changing, internet forums are new we are all learning... :)

Nice to see you back rapala,,
first post , like myself the mods got you,,

is that passion or what

[Mr_Green]

i wouldnt kill that many bass myself, i even felt guilty killing the 9.5lber i had... but i suppose my posts are a collective over the past year ive been a member...ive seen some god awful replies to anglers who have unwittingly posted what was a great nights fishing... like its been said its a public forum, uncensored opinions, but then again that word uncensored is fickle? im just really peeved about this and every time this happens... makes my mouse wander over the X botton...everytime a post like this comes up WE create an US and THEM scenario, which in turn segregates us as anglers.. i suppose in these caes what the eye doesnt see doesnt hurt :roll:

Would you say then it is fair to say you got caught up in the moment with the 9.5Ib bass..? On reflection if you could turn back time would you have thrown it back..?
When I caught my one and only specimen I hadnt a camera and the thought did cross my mind to keep it but thank God I didnt.

I dont think there were any bad reactions to the post, just some ideas and thoughts on conservation.
If Bass grew quickly it wouldnt be a problem but its just when you think how old a fish that size is and what its been through to get to that size - isnt a photo good enough and then to let it go again..?

on reflection...NO...made a lovely dinner out of it, done an excellent beurre blanc with it, some asparagus tips..Mmmmmm

[padge73]

I wasn't going to say much but feel I need to respond to one or two comments that have been made. Dave G in fairness man there is a very big difference between the expression of opinions and harassment.. I personally congratulate the two lads on what must have been a really exciting nights fishing, however I feel that it is a pity those fish are no longer in the sea, that dose not equal to judging anyone, pointing the finger at anyone and is definitely not harassment. I think threads like this are very informative for all involved. There are some very experienced people here who have use full information to share that otherwise would not get the attention it deserves. We fish, all of us we have that in common, we all know the absolute rush of hooking into a wild hard fighting bass and we should all be aware of the consequences if we do not act responsibly. I for one have not always fished catch and release, it was through the likes of this type of discussion that I became truly aware of the pressure that Bass in this country are under. I will never forget the first big Bass I released it was at some level a road to Damascus moment, a point when I realized the real satisfaction of seeing such a beautiful creature recover after doing battle and swimming off unharmed, this has gone from straight to strength for me to a point where I find it very difficult if a fish gets mortally wounded, which given the nature of the sport happens to us all. In response to Jim from cork I have no doubt that there is is no one giving out to people at the annual awards logic dictates that the majority of the people in the room have also killed fish so they are in no position to say anything to the person beside them. The system is far from perfect, if you are entitled to like it then I am entitled to be appalled by it. The only recognition I will ever seek for my fishing skills is between me and the fish and is marked by the beat of a tail as the fish swims off unharmed.