what rod for tope

[LAR]

hello, got a new reel for catching tope its a abu 7000 and looking for a rod to go with it any suggestions or even rods for sale would be a great help.thanks

[paddyc]

if you can get your hands on one of the old zziplex bullit range would do the job and more.

[stevecrow74]

a good uptider is what i'd suggest....

[beachcaster]

you want a rod with a bit of back bone in it mate,doesnot have to be overly stiff.something like the zero plus ,bullet or century kompressor grand prix mate.

[Neil]

I caught my biggest tope, which was 50-60 lbs, on a cheapish Shimano 12-20lb boat rod. The fish gave a good bend to the rod, but that's what you're looking for!

The ratio of line weight (and hence rod) under IGFA rules can be 5 to 1, 10 to 1, or 20 to 1! In fact Bill Riesenfeld's 108-pound, 8-ounce tarpon taken on August 4, 1987 from Florida Bay, Florida exceeds these standards; it weighed 27 times his line test!

In general, rods in the UK and Ireland are always too heavy in my opinion - maybe this derives from the obsession with casting distances using stiff pokers. I am constantly amazed, when watching Rex Hunt Fishing Adventures, how big are the fish they catch from skinny little 5' rods.

Under these rules, my 12-20lb rod was far too heavy. Go for an 8-12 lb or lighter. As for brand, go for the cheapest of the range from any of the major manufacturers; the tope will have no idea what sort of rod you're using.

[beachcaster]

lads the guy put this in the shore angling section so i dont think he is looking an uptider or boat rod?????

[Neil]

Ah true enough!, but the lighter the better principle still applies; just about every beach rod that you might come across would still probably be too stiff and heavy....set the drag for 30% of the line weight and let the fish bend the rod and run!

[stevecrow74]

lads the guy put this in the shore angling section so i dont think he is looking an uptider or boat rod?????

i've seen uptiders used as shore rods for larger species like tope, stingray etc etc...

looking for a good one my self for such purpose.....

[Ryan]

In general, rods in the UK and Ireland are always too heavy in my opinion - maybe this derives from the obsession with casting distances using stiff pokers. I am constantly amazed, when watching Rex Hunt Fishing Adventures, how big are the fish they catch from skinny little 5' rods.

Would have to agree, majority of the beachcasters used in the UK & Ireland are generally overkill for what is likely to be caught from the shore. Having been to Australia on numerous ocasions i've seen Big fish being caught on rods that most people here would class as cheapies. :roll:
A good reel, line & learn how to use the drag properly goes a long way to landing a big fish.

I watched kids catching big stingray on $45 kits from K-Mart in Oz! :lol:

[Rockhopper]

Neil/Ryan,

Like beachcaster said, Lar has posed a question on a shore fishing forum, asking what rod is best for Tope and your start getting on soap boxes about line class and big fish around the world. Some of what you say is almost casting UK and Irish shore anglers as not been knowledgeable enough to know how to set a drag or choose a rod for the task.

Let me ask both of you this then, why is that most of the east coast American anglers copy the UK style surf rods as do many others around Europe and even in Australia. Yes you see anglers catching big fish on small rods with light line, not from the shore in the UK and Ireland though, the Tarpon Neil mentions was landed from a skiff, who caught the fish, the angler or the pole handler, not many Tarpon are landed from the shore, I know some guys who target nothing else in Florida and your lucky to have one on for very long, never mind land one.

To the point of the thread though, surly neither of you are telling Lar to go out and buy a 5ft or 6ft cheapie from a tackle shop and expect to cast it far enough to catch....let alone land a Tope. The fish in our waters are seldom close in, that's why you need a rod with some power to cast 5oz or more to even be in the catching zone, if your fishing on a busy beach, with other anglers a long rod will help you steer a fish to the beach or steer the fish around any obstacles, you'll not do that with a short cheap rod. As to line class, all what I said above goes with something like 15lb-25lb line. I am as sporting as the next angler, but I want to land the fish I catch, some like to think its sporting to use ultra light line to catch heavy fish, personally I don't, each to his own, I wont knock him for it, but in the same breath I wont let him knock the way me and most of the UK and Irish anglers go about their sport either.

That said....Lar, if your looking to fish for Tope from either beach or rocks, try to get yourself a rod that can cast a reasonable distance (100-120yards with a decent size bait) with some backbone, there must be any amount out there that will suit your 7000 Abu, from low to high end budget wise, let us know how you get on, wont you :)

BTW....I have used an uptide rod from the shore quite a few times, but uptide rods go from very light to as heavy as you need, depending on what your needs are.

Best Regards,
Tom.

[x]

Have to agree with Tom on this one. I have been looking into tope fishing from the shore and the end tackle and bait, not to mention weight required will not be cast with a kiddie's spinning rod. While I like to keep my own tackle as 'sporting' as possible, I see little virtue in using a setup that a fish will most likely break and be left with a hook and line trailing from it's mouth.

I've had a chat with a couple of successful and acknowledged experts on tope fishing and am advised that in a decent tide run, favoured by tope, a reasonable griplead will be required - probably 5-6oz. Add in a foot of wire trace, 4-6 feet of 200lb mono rubbing trace and top off with a mackerel fillet or flapper on a pulley configuration of rig and I see a decent beachcaster or perhaps an uptider being the order of the day. Even then, I'm looking at tossing the lot off a rock mark (one that I can land a fish on without damaging it, just to further complicate matters) so I have some chance of getting the whole mess into a few meters of water so I have a chance of getting into the feeding zone.

I have a 12' Daiwa interline surf rod that might get pressed into service for the task and I'll chance my 525 reel, in the absence of something better.

Once anyones an expert at catching a particular species, they can start to see how they can scale down their gear. For the beginner, I'd say go on the heavy side with everything and work back from there.

[greg]

tom
voice of experince and sense thankgod .ryan the tackle used by irish and english anglers has nothing to do with the size of the fish it is the enviroment that we fish in .strong tides ,long distance.size of bait etc.to fish with the tackle you recommend show a blatant regard for fish welfare.to play a fish any longer than required is i my mind in excusable.to tether a fish for a long period of time is one of the things that will see angling banned eventually.and it is downright cruel in my mind.to stress a fish with poor tackle then relase it if you land it. to have done to it again is wrong.use the strongest tackle possible to land the fish in the least time have a t bar for unhooking quick photo if required and return immedatily.sorry for the rant but inexperinced anglers need to learn.
greg

[Neil]

I take note of the points mentioned above, and I concede that I was mistaken on my first post, thinking of boat rods. However, the main point being that just about any beach rod sold on the UK/Irish market would probably handle tope comfortably. The kind of thinking that leads a person to think of 'the' rod for tope is seduction by marketing hype -" it's a big fish so needs a big stiff rod." I am not immune to such ideas myself with the consequence I've more tackle you can shake a stick at (carbon fibre, fuji rings :D), even down to more bass lures than I can use, just in case that "must have" lure will give me a better chance at catching a bass.

I haven't used my Penn Voyager and 525 mag for over a year - I tend to use a 12'6 2.75 lb test curve carp rod and f/s reel. I've found that a 3 oz grip lead will pull out in a tide run just as easy as a 5 oz. Never caught a shore tope on it though! :lol:

[x]

Yup, easy to slip into a being a tackle tart. I'm looking at trying for a tope from the shore 'cause a mate wants to try it. (As good a reason as any, IMHO)

I've resisted manfully :lol: the urge to hit my local tackle shop or Veals etc for some specialised gear - hence using a stiffish beachcaster I already have to see how it works first, always supposing I actually get a hookup, which is a dit doubtful. But if I don't try, I'll never know. While it might be fun for an experienced tope angler to go light, a novice like me (and probably the most of us, in fairness) has to go with whatever we have is most suitable for chucking a hefty rig out a fair distance. Doubtless from a boat, one could go a lot lighter, not having to chuck as far.

Mind you, the more I think about it, a decent uptider could be purchased....might be just the thing.... :lol:

[Rockhopper]

Pat,

This should show you how to do it...go to 5 Mile Point about 11-o-clock any Sunday morning, take a smallish spinner and a fixed spool reel, dont forget your shorts and T-Shirt, and you must be barefoot.....when you come out of hospital and your frost bites are healed, you will have plenty to bragg about.....Enjoy some Florida shark fishing in this video.....

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 1919533000

btw.....I am building 2 uptide rods at the minute, with Tope from the shore in mind, both are 10'3" long, wont cast as far as a beachcaster, but should get me into the strike zone after dark 8) I hope :)

Tom.

[Neil]

While it might be fun for an experienced tope angler to go light, a novice like me (and probably the most of us, in fairness) has to go with whatever we have is most suitable for chucking a hefty rig out a fair distance. Doubtless from a boat, one could go a lot lighter, not having to chuck as far.

What do people use for bait for shore tope? I can't imagine any rod being able to chuck a whole mackeral flapper very far. The other trick is to bait a small 1 or 1/0 hook tied to the 8/0 tope hook - once you see a rattle or two you know you got a 'hair-rigged' live bait and you just have to wait for a tope to pas by...in which case you wouldn't need a stiff poker to get a light bait a decent diastance.

[Rockhopper]

Neil,

You use words like "stiff poker" some beachcaster rods are stiff, but don't forget what some of the tournament casters say "if you cant bend it, you wont send it" most beachcasters rated 5oz-8oz will deliver a big enough bait into the strike zone (50yds-100yrds) for a Tope.

My choice of rigs would almost always be a clipped down pulley rig with a 6oz or 7oz weight and a smallish Mackerel flapper on a 6/0 or 8/0 circle hook. that said! a very good Tope bait is a small Flattie, if you set the hook right and keep the Flattie alive (not hard to do) it would bring a Tope to the party more often than not, easier than a dead Mackerel. Tope hunting the surf line close in will be looking for Flatties.

IMO a crucial factor in Tope fishing from the shore, is the drag set, that first run of the take is where the game could start and end, unless the angler is prepared with his drag well set, at the same time a softish rod tip helps as a shocker too. Don't forget unlike in a boat, the shore angler can only move left or right to follow the fish, so his gear must be set right.

Tom.

[Ryan]

Hi Tom & Greg,

All points from your replies duly taken on board, I'm not trying to downgrade any methods or tackle used.

Aren't we all in this game for pleasure & excitement? In my opinion that equates to giving the fish as sporting chance to escape as possible, should that mean going lightweight then be it. Ive only been fishing 20+ yrs, probably not as experienced as you guys, but it's all about pleasure & excitement for me that's why i used to fish shore conger with a spinning rod! :lol:

If we're talking about fish welfare then as soon as we stick a hook in the fish we're ALL guilty of showing a disregard to that fishes welfare.

In all truth I've never fished for Tope, so yes I'm no expert, i much prefer lure fishing along the north coast :)

But IMHO i don't believe we have anything along the Irish coastline that requires rods like the Tournament class beachcasters we have available on the market today and with the tournament casters statement of "if you cant bend it, you wont send it" have you ever seen a Top tournament caster thats a skinny 11stone? :lol:

Though for Lar something that could cast 6oz + bait would be more than adequate even taking into considerations tides etc.

[Rockhopper]

Hi Ryan,

My response is only to some of the issues being raised here, not knocking you or anyone else for the style of fishing they practice.

In answer to one of your questions, yes, there are a few top tournament casters who are in the 11 stone bracket, Roger Mortimer is the first to spring to mind. That said, I think you are missing some of my point, the long powerful casting rods may not be needed to play a fish in, but they are needed (at times but not always) to get your bait out to where the fish are. Where have you or anyone else ever seen the kind of fishing done around our shores that the guy in the video is doing.

I remember a guy in England years ago bragging he held the boat caught Conga record for 2lb line....for me, that not giving the fish a sporting chance, that fish never got back alive, whether it was the 2 hour fight or whatever, it never got back, that's a shame, someone may have caught that fish yesterday and claimed the world all line class record for 200lb plus...surely you see my point on this scenario of light line fishing.

Lure fishing....I love it, every chance I get....but we never get the conditions to do it each and everytime we go fishing, not the like the anglers in Australia or America etc....pity, but true :)

Regards,
Tom.

[petekd]

Fair play lads on an interesting, reasoned well argued debate with good points on both sides...nice to see, without anyone taking offense at anothers POV.