Illex i-shad jig head

[Bassy Tom]

Hi all,

I want to try trotting the Illex I-shad out this year in estuaries. I know Illex have 2 types of jighead for these (ie the gambit straight and the gambit texas) but i am not sure how they differ in relation to working the lure. Has anyone experience with both of these and what weight would be recommended, presumably i would need a range of weights to match the flow of water?

Thanks Lads.

[Steve]

Everyone will have their own preference, choice of jig heads etc for this kind of thing, but the main difference between the two you have mentioned is that one is weedless, one isn't. If the estuary holds snags, weed beds, mussel beds etc then fishing weedless is the way to go. There are lot of articles on trotting on the web if you have a quick google.

As you have mentioned, the flow of water is going to dictate your choice of jig head weight and you may need to adjust it from time to time in order to allow proper presentation of the lure as the tidal flow increases/decreases. No harm to pick up a couple of different sizes to allow for this. Paddle tails cast across the current worked on a straight retrieve can work well is estuarys, the tidal flow gets the tail moving nicely. You don't have to splash out on fiiish minnows either, there are plenty of alternatives which don't cost the bloody earth but work just as effectively.

If I was to give you one simple tip its to go to your local tackle shop when first trying to match up hook sizes etc for the lures you are using. Whilst buying over the web can often be cheaper, sometimes its a false economy when you realise that the jig heads/hooks you have bought are completely the wrong size!!!

[JimH]

Steve is spot on Tom - one thing to remember is a plain illex wide gape finesse hook with no jig head. Before you fish the moving water don't forget the weedy margins, this horizontal rather than head drop presentation, done really slowly through the weed is often deadly with the I-shad.

Be aware too Tom the wire in the illex gambit jig head hook iis perfect for penetration but just a little soft at times when encountering bigger fish - take your time!

[Bassy Tom]

Thanks Steve and Jim for the replies. Just one more question are there certain colours that work better in estuaries?

[JimH]

BIG subject Tom – as a simple rule I generally consider a few things regarding colour choice
• Light levels – time of day or indeed night and even time of year

 If fish are holding in a forced position (tide) what directions are they looking in relation to the sun i.e. is the sun shining in the direction they are looking?
 Are they travelling out the estuary into a rising or setting sun or where is the sun positioned overhead
 Is there existing cloud cover, is it a dark type of day or bright with lots of cloud cover

• Water condition – is the water clear or coloured – improving clarity or is it deteriorating?

 If the water is clear and conditions are bright this is significantly different than coloured water with dark skies

• Presence of forage – Is there any natural food visible that I should be imitating?
Out of some of that comes some of this
Fish like bass are highly sensitive to both contrast and movement (natural behaviour or indeed provocation) as ‘initial indicators’ sometimes that’s all it takes for them to eat, size and shape are important and then perhaps colour under general conditions.
Fast moving fish in shoals react and feed differently (aggressively) (less triggers) to slower moving smaller shoals or bigger single fish (carefully) (more triggers).
They can of course become selective for short periods
Bigger fish on soft plastics is the easiest method of catching them because of presentation not specific colours
They can of course become selective for short periods
Just when you think you have it figured out it all changes of course so it’s pretty much up to you but...
Dark day dark lure (often bigger too)
Bright day bright lure (often smaller too)
Clear water clear or natural lure colours – shape and behaviour important too – you need to be stealthy if you are high on rocks etc
Coloured water coloured lures – noise and contrast play a role here too – often nailed to the bottom there is a small level of clearer water conditions

[Bassy Tom]

BIG subject Tom – as a simple rule I generally consider a few things regarding colour choice
• Light levels – time of day or indeed night and even time of year

 If fish are holding in a forced position (tide) what directions are they looking in relation to the sun i.e. is the sun shining in the direction they are looking?
 Are they travelling out the estuary into a rising or setting sun or where is the sun positioned overhead
 Is there existing cloud cover, is it a dark type of day or bright with lots of cloud cover

• Water condition – is the water clear or coloured – improving clarity or is it deteriorating?

 If the water is clear and conditions are bright this is significantly different than coloured water with dark skies

• Presence of forage – Is there any natural food visible that I should be imitating?
Out of some of that comes some of this
Fish like Bass are highly sensitive to both contrast and movement (natural behaviour or indeed provocation) as ‘initial indicators’ sometimes that’s all it takes for them to eat, size and shape are important and then perhaps colour under general conditions.
Fast moving fish in shoals react and feed differently (aggressively) (less triggers) to slower moving smaller shoals or bigger single fish (carefully) (more triggers).
They can of course become selective for short periods
Bigger fish on soft plastics is the easiest method of catching them because of presentation not specific colours
They can of course become selective for short periods
Just when you think you have it figured out it all changes of course so it’s pretty much up to you but...
Dark day dark lure (often bigger too)
Bright day bright lure (often smaller too)
Clear water clear or natural lure colours – shape and behaviour important too – you need to be stealthy if you are high on rocks etc
Coloured water coloured lures – noise and contrast play a role here too – often nailed to the bottom there is a small level of clearer water conditions

Good lord, i appear to have opened up a big can of worms there Jim lol. Thanks for all your help, not i think i will get a beer to try and make space in this brain of mine for all this extra info Much appreciated.

[JimH]

Would that be senko or wave worms Tom?

Seriously get a beer read it and then forget about it, there are hundreds of blogs and websites churning out this stuff every day - I've said it before I'll say it again

Bass are easy to catch - However understanding their behavior (and yours) under a myriad of circumstances and the influences upon them is what will catch you the fish.

Yes someone can say go to the yellow rock at half tide with a white bonnie and you will catch fish - perhaps you will, but have you learned anything?

Only you can do that yourself Tom, this is the essence of bass fishing - it takes time but in the end its yours, after your own endeavors and work.

The days are getting longer......

[Crevan]

Quality posting as always Jim

[luanaigh]

excellent , interesting stuff Jim.
I agree re the lightness of the illex wide gape hooks...for me, they are too light for the larger ladies : )
A good friend and excellent angler recommended tex poser hooks..they are super strong
ps very interesting about the sunlight in relation to a basses ability to see (in clearer conditions with lots of sun,,b@stard conditions as i call them haha)...at least I think that's what your pointing at?

[JimH]

C don't know if it's quality or not but you know capable fishers like yourself recognise some instances that force you to fish under the circumstances.

L wide gape seem to be ok, it's the fine wire on the gambit that I'm a bit cautious with. I have a small obsession with horizontally 'stable' lures and flies and I take great care that i don't want the head to drop on either, it MUST travel straight with no dip. Sometimes....

This is achieved with material and balance in the fly for instance in clear water I will fish a very very sparse and translucent fly (minimum of material) often only a suggestion of 'presence' if the hook is heavy the fly moves down IF I DONT want this which is often I must fish a lighter hook

With the I shad or similar I want it to behave sometimes similarly - swim and suspend with little or no vertical drop some hooks change this presentation.

Sunny morning tide running shallow ground say from east to west at 05:30 in the morning fish face into the sun, tide running at 17.30 fish face away from the sun, tide running in same direction - sun position changed fish activity different ? If they have to move position to see better or not to be seen in the morning it may not prove to be optimum for them in relation to tide flow at a given time hence windows of opportunity might be different in relation to light level, tidal flow and fish position in a location for any length of time under different circumstances - this is before we consider colour or contrast or fly or lure choice......

Thats why I just fish with a white and chartreuse deceiver....!

Eventually you go mad

[JimH]

Im guessing Tom you've had a few beers at this stage - if you are interested in reading some more of 'bass fishing experiences' and other fishing material I'll be adding some stuff to Jim Clohessys new venture over the next few weeks

See www.topfisher.eu

[Bassy Tom]

Im guessing Tom you've had a few beers at this stage - if you are interested in reading some more of 'Bass fishing experiences' and other fishing material I'll be adding some stuff to Jim Clohessys new venture over the next few weeks

See http://www.topfisher.eu

Just about ready for more information now Jim. Thanks for the link i am looking forward to the read.

Just one more thing on the ishad Jim, i got the 5.8" which in hindsight it might have been better to get the 4.8", especially when i look at the gambit straight 7g jig head i got for them. Oh and you are right Jim the hooks do look a little on the light duty side for the bigger fish.

[Eoghan]

Just wanna say thanks Jim for all the info above. Some of us, like myself, dont get out that often so when I get some information like this I try to absorb it as much as I can. Every little bit can be priceless. For instance I have never considered the position of the sun and the direction the fish may be facing and the potential colour requirement as a result of the lure. I think over the years I have come a long way from just walking up to a mark and firing a lure out, really do try to think about the external factors and their potential affect to the fish. These days I force myself to stop when i get to a mark, and have a good look around. Sun, wind, tide flow, tide state and so on and make a decision from that where and how I will fish. I'll be honest and say I didnt learn this by myself, its only from listening to people like yourself that has helped me a great deal. A few of us on the forum owe ye a pint of two..!

[JimH]

Tom – does this mean we are on a size discussion at this stage?
Are you concerned about the hook size, the weight or the size of the lure Tom?
In anticipation of your answer, the I-Shad is a super caster with or without the gambit head; the bigger size obviously casts a little better than the smaller.
Be aware the I-shad 5.8” is now out of production – consider Bass Assasins pin tail shads and others see a German site called http://www.camo-tackle.de
Bass are what’s known as a head hitter species, I notice this a lot of the time, especially when fishing large flatwing flies above 7 or 8 inches – the hook is a long way from the tail but they nearly always (9/10) hit the head where the hook is, when they are aggressive.

Last year I witnessed a friend fly fishing, casting to a rock at 15yards, out came the fish and followed the fly one centimetre from its nose for fifty feet, NO take, three times, the guy was a wreck, he fluffed the next cast and spooked the fish, adrenalin overload. The fish was probably >80 centimetres (est)

When they actively ‘mouth’ the lure the connection can be very direct, very ‘rattly’ or a simple ‘wwwuuummmphhhhh’. Give the fish a little time to turn after the pickup and gently lift in.

Because the hook is recessed there is always a chance of a no hook-up situation, but that’s bass fishing!

With the jig head on a quick lift to move the lure a ‘short’ distance off the bottom, snap it up briskly, the lure moves about 8-10 inches, drop the rod a little and the lure drops back on the slack in freefall. Now be careful because if you are fishing with what I call ‘cobweb’ braid this is where problems start with rod tip wrap and wind knots loops etc, ‘tougher’ braid will prevent you spending and wasting 70.00 Euros on knots. It can be done mind it just requires line management over time with a bit of experience.

Eoghan, thanks as always
I think we have all come a long way in the last few years; we need to figure out the best way to manage and protect it and be realistic about it now.

I have the greatest respect for people who work hard at their bass fishing when they can (I see here on this post Luanaigh, Crevan, Yourself, Tom, and others too all passionate and time spent) a lot of the time I don’t like ‘rabbiting’ on, hate to sound like a lecture or anything like it...and everybody’s perspectives/experiences are valid and possibly different too

I don’t like ‘just add water, look at me’ experts, accelerated through the process with no real effort and I’m always very conscious and aware of them and their transparent short term agendas.

There is a lot of genuine quality info out there just be careful who’s delivering it – Justin Anwyl, Austen Goldsmith, John Quinlan, Mike Ladle, Jim Clohessy, Pat Daly, the White brothers in Jersey, all loaded with time and experiences

[Bassy Tom]

Thanks for the reply Jim, and yes it does look like i have dragged the conversation further into information overload with a size question lol.

You hit he nail on the head there Jim and answered my question in one. I was concerned that the 7g illex gambit straight was too close to the head of the ishad, but now that i know that Bass are predominantly HEAD hunters i shall just get out there this season and fish the best i can with the information i have gained over the last year or so. I am after all only beginning my journey into lure fishing and as you would say "i need to make it my own".

Thanks again for the advice Jim, hope you have a great season this year and who knows i might even get the chance to rack your brain in person again this year.

[luanaigh]

Jim.

Your right about the hooks..the wide gapes are sturdier alright (it must be the gambits I'm thinking of).

Towards the end of last year i started fishing worm type plastics on the level swim you talk about.

To say it opened up my eyes is an understatement

It also shocked me how good this works in the dark.

[Steve]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QWF6RX1towc

Jim/Luanaigh - there's a brief part of this video showing the swimming motion. Is this the action you are talking about (I-motion)?

I assume a texas hook or wacky hook through the nose would do the trick?

[JimH]

Steve - that's very close, my major influences have come across from http://www.insideline.net/ and then added this http://www.stripermoon.com/ then blended them to come up with something thats a bit of both throw an Irish bass in there and see what happens

Thanks for link

" I love learning things about Nature that I don't know and I love seeing things unfold that I do have some experience with already. To see new things holds my attention. I like it. Still there are many things that I have trouble noticing because I am so familiar with them that I do not see them for what they are and what they may possibly mean "

Ken Abrames

[Steve]

Cheers Jim - that's my weekend sorted so, plenty to read there!

[JimH]

Enjoy it Steve, especially Yamamoto if your interested in soft baits, look closely at senko techniques and presentations - like this one from four years ago http://www.insideline.net/index.php/fea ... -swimsenko

Its amazing to think GY created the swim senko around 2001 or 2002 if not earlier (mistaken maybe) the French anglers fished with it avidly for many years through the 00's and its taken perhaps ten years or more to be talked about here on websites etc. Think it was in a post above somewhere..

I know they are a different species of freshwater bass, when I lived and worked in Texas/Mexico for a short while back in the late 90's I know they certainly behaved in many ways like Irish saltwater fish.

Regards