long term damage by competitions on a marine ecosystem ?

[sailnfish]

It seems that certain beaches are used regularly for competitions.
As a young lad, I noticed one particular stretch of the local strand was used very frequently for competitive angling. In fact, it continues to be a popular competition venue.
My concerns about the sustainability of repeated use of the same stretch of coast are based on first hand observations of the following over the years:

- Many people digging lug simultaneously at low water on competition day: I witnessed 12 digging one particular afternoon prior to a comp.

- Many fish being taken from one location is a short timeframe: while the vast majority of anglers commendably practice catch and release. All fish don't make it and those that do survive must surely suffer a period of disruption post release.

I am not in any way against the concept of competitive angling but as anglers it iI our collective responsibility to look after our local marks and by extension, voice our concerns.
I would like to hear other members opinions on this either way, variety being the spice of life and all that

Cheers

[lad123]

Its the commercial fishermen aand trawlers doing the damage

[corbyeire]

i agree sailnfish

the commercial trawlers do the greatest amount of damage on a fishery on the whole, no question - in localised scenarios ive no doubt comps or regular line angling have an impact - this is the habitat these fish prefer

you talk to any top competition angler and they will tell you the same - no point going back to a beach that had a large comp on it a few weeks ago "its fished out"

the ability of an area to recover from comps/regular angling is then compounded by the damage of the commercial fishing in deeper waters, restricting the amounts of fish that could recolonise the affected area

i am sure some areas recover more quickly and do not show the affects as much as other areas - but be sure not all competition anglers are so good - or care about catch or release
many recreational anglers dont know how to properly catch and release

i have fished many national competitions and large opens and have organised and stewarded at the same
the carry on of some seasoned anglers who know better - really appals me

lads catching 20+ fish and wrenching the hooks out of each one - a gonner

how many were at the jimmy smith this year - 100 between seniors and juniors - each catching on average 10 fish ...
in the boat fish offs i think there were 7000 fish caught

when your picking up pegs and walking a beach after some comps all you see are the dead small flounder ebbing around along with the whiting etc.

now dont get me wrong some fish are awkwardly hooked and not much can be done - but everything that helps that scenario should be attempted

the fish is caught and placed in your bucket with water and the trace detached
go cast out your next trace
then back to the fish - if its a flattie take the time to disgorge through the operculum at the back avoiding the gills
round fish if its gut hooked leave it in, cut the line - it has a half chance - no point going at surgery - it never ends well

place back into the bucket to settle for a min as you walk to the water and release and fill the bucket up again

most people are not out for their dinner - its a small bonus - its usually for the sport people go out fishing
if you want good sport you have to take care of your resource

the very same goes for lug beds - back fill your holes - the amount of places that get dug out is amazing also
places that got hit by the red tide 2 years ago are only begining to recover now
when the lug are gone - theyre gone - as the adds say

it seems anecdotely that the fishing is getting worse over the decades - due to overfishing no doubt
the competition anglers on the shore scene are going to smaller and smaller hooks - size 6, 8 would have never been heard of 20 years ago
the size limits have gone down from 30cm to 15cm!

these smaller fish do not weather the hooking ordeal as well as larger fish and need more care to make it back

we all should be doing our small bit - whether or not its all the commericals fault on the local stretch you fish
no point throwing your hands in the air and giving up

[chuckaroo]

It seems that certain beaches are used regularly for competitions.
As a young lad, I noticed one particular stretch of the local strand was used very frequently for competitive angling. In fact, it continues to be a popular competition venue.
My concerns about the sustainability of repeated use of the same stretch of coast are based on first hand observations of the following over the years:

- Many people digging lug simultaneously at low water on competition day: I witnessed 12 digging one particular afternoon prior to a comp.

- Many fish being taken from one location is a short timeframe: while the vast majority of anglers commendably practice catch and release. All fish don't make it and those that do survive must surely suffer a period of disruption post release.

I am not in any way against the concept of competitive angling but as anglers it iI our collective responsibility to look after our local marks and by extension, voice our concerns.
I would like to hear other members opinions on this either way, variety being the spice of life and all that

Cheers

i too have witnessed first hand a lot of destruction caused by competitions along the shore.
I got the impression that flounder were being ripped from the hook and thrown back in again with little due care - in the rush to get re-baited and to cast back out again.

the evidence was clear, i watched dead and dying flounder drift and spin past me at a stead rate as i fished a beach last year - there was a competition along the rest of the beach that i wasnt involved in - and i mean a steady line of dead an dying fish.

im not against competitions either, they are a great social event!, but I am against the needless killing of fish and disruption to habitat. yes, the trawlers are responsible for by far the worst destruction but the damage i have seen done by anglers certainly isnt good.

unfortunately i can only understand how difficult it would be to control the mishandling of fish during competitions. i reckon that all anglers need clear and informative advice about habitat fragility and protection, and how to handle fish properly, at the start of each of these competitions.

now the last time i made this post here it was deleted, which i was disappointed at.
i think all aspects of angling, good or bad, should be discussed and debated here

[Deise boy]

Fair point alright.
I understand your concerns. But I look at it like this.
Take 20 men daily fishing there ok.
Each man takes 2 fish
That's 240 unless I'm mistaken a week.
Which don't happen

If each week this happened that would be
17,240 fish.
( hope my maths are right or I will look bad here lol )

1 boat passing 1 mule out can drag that in a day depending on fish type etc.

I do understand what your saying and I agree every little helps our by each angler by placing them back.

But I think your argument which I don't think it is an argument could be answered by a vessel or by the authorities.

And I think mate your question and answer would be ignored.

Not being rude or anything as you have to take into consideration that there's 100s if not thousands fishing daily and that really adds up also.

[corbyeire]

i think you need to be clear on your distinction between an angler taking a fish to eat
and returning fish they caught

not all returned fish survive

and you are taking fish from very shallow water on beaches or estuaries where the trawlers dont go

i am only talking about localised areas on the coast within the average casters distance

would those flounder etc. be over a foot in greater numbers, without the angling pressure

im not talking about 10lb cod that used to turn up seasonally 30 years ago

or other white fish that the commercials are decimating

in all fairness it is an argument - we cant really be pointing fingers at the commercials unless we keep our own house in order

i dont think its something a vessel or an authority could answer - do they have year on year survey of shallow waters that we could reference and clearly point the finger at the commercials

maybe i dont understand the ecology or the life cycles of the fish im talking about

is there a marine scientist reading this!

[Sweetwrasse]

In an overall sense the amount of fish taken by shore anglers probably has little or no impact on fish stocks but, and this is the point being made in the original post, rod and line angling can impact stocks in highly localised clusters. Impact is either greater or lesser depending on fishing pressure, species targeted etc. Also, as fish stocks are decimated by the commercial sector then the small numbers of fish taken by anglers logically becomes more significant.
With the direct value of recreational angling recently estimated to be in the region of 125 million euro to the economy then we as anglers need to show leadership on protecting our shore angling..... keep the tourists and visitors coming! The added bonus would be improved fishing for all of us!

Getting away from fish stocks, the digging out of worm beds is also a serious problem. Some of the beds up in my locality in Donegal aren't even worth visiting anymore.

[flyno]

[Take 20 men daily fishing there ok.
Each man takes 2 fish
That's 240 unless I'm mistaken a week.


(20x2) x 7 = 280 sorry mate, couldn't resist it...

[beachbuddy]

With reference to the local beaches in east cork,seriously most clubs down this way don't even have 12 members and struggle to get half of that attending a club comp.The recent 4th leg of the munster closed didn't even break 15 which is a premium national comp.Numbers of anglers attending competitions has been declining for years now and will continue to do so .
Yes some fish will die due to deep hooking etc,but in defence most competitive anglers I know are well able to remove hooks from deep hooked fish in double quick time thus causing minimal stress to the fish and giving it a better overall chance of survival.Next time you visit the local beaches just see how lots of people try to get their hooks back from the guts of their catch and then put the fish back thinking it will swim away.
The local beaches are a patch of their former selves and rest assured that's not down to regular competitions doing massive damage.Point in case next time near knockadoon just see how many dogfish are thrown onto dry land to rot as they aren't making any money at the markets,HUNDREDS and these would have come from the garryvoe stretches,remember my post about the netting of painted ray off the caravan gap in garryvoe did that damage the local inshore stocks of course it did.
When or if the codling arrive down in corkharbour and the anglers arrive enforce just look at how many of the fish that are returned float away up the tide and this is on a daily tide not monthly like a lot of comps.Yes bad on both sides can be observed but competitive angling isn't to blame for it all,unless if you are referring to saleen where the rag beds have been decimated then I couldn't agree with you more,a bloody disgrace.

[sailnfish]

I think the recreational vs commercial debate can be put to bed as we're all in agreement as to who's doing the greater damage there.
The concerns I am raising relate specifically to the effect of regular competitions on the same localised ecosystem.
As mentioned by a previous poster, competition hooks are getting smaller as are the fish sizes which can be submitted for points purposes. A lot of these fish would not yet have had the chance to spawn and therefore are a a critical stage in their lifecycle.
also, I find it hard to convince myself that a dozen lads digging competition quantities of lug at the same time wouldn't have lasting negative implications for the local food chain.
I have noticed a definite drop in the quality of fishing at one local mark following repeated competitions. And the lug have been completely decimated.

[beachbuddy]

I think the recreational vs commercial debate can be put to bed as we're all in agreement as to who's doing the greater damage there.
The concerns I am raising relate specifically to the effect of regular competitions on the same localised ecosystem.
As mentioned by a previous poster, competition hooks are getting smaller as are the fish sizes which can be submitted for points purposes. A lot of these fish would not yet have had the chance to spawn and therefore are a a critical stage in their lifecycle.
also, I find it hard to convince myself that a dozen lads digging competition quantities of lug at the same time wouldn't have lasting negative implications for the local food chain.
I have noticed a definite drop in the quality of fishing at one local mark following repeated competitions. And the lug have been completely decimated.

Sailnfish if you are referring to local fishing I will reiterate to you that most shore angling clubs down here will rarely have half a dozen people out for the competition,to see 12 lads digging lugworm for a competition in a localised area is a lot of bodies allright must have been a big comp.
Whether im comp fishing or pleasure fishing i'll always dig the same amount of lugworm 30/35 and any remaining will be stored in a bait fridge and reused at another date thus putting less pressure on beds I rekon most pleasure anglers would be similar.Oh small fine wire hooks are also excellent at minimising damage to fish rather than the 3/0 thicker guage hooks used per normal when bassing etc.
I too have noticed a definite drop in my catch rates in places like east ferry guileen ballycroneen whitebay which are non competitive fishing venues as they can't hold the vast quantities of anglers fishing comps these days ,only pleasue anglers are the ones fishing these places so it must be down to them
I'll let that be my last on the subject from me,tight lines.

[keith]

I would say there is no major long term damage done to the ecosystem by shore competitions, as beachbuddy has already said TWICE most clubs struggle to get 10-15 anglers at a match and even the big opens can hardly hit 70-80 fishing. Most match anglers are well able to handle fish and remove hooks properly at almost every comp now you will see anglers with buckets of water for their fish ( how many pleasure anglers do this? ).

PS, If you venture out to the popular east cork beaches this weekend you might be upset

[sailnfish]

PS, If you venture out to the popular east cork beaches this weekend you might be upset

I'm well aware of the comp taking place this weekend
I won't be upset at all, no doubt I'll learn a bit from watching proceedings. Furthermore, I conciously avoided posting this topic as a comment within the thread relating to the comp so as to avoid any potential damage to its success. From the outset, I didn't express any ill will towards the comp.
I can't deny that having a major comp like that on a local stretch that fairly regularly hosts them raises concerns not only about the targeting of small fish and potential losses, but equally about the potential removal of large quantities of lug from the food chain. I posted this to get opinions in the absence of any specific scientific research and will take on board any point well made, without cynicism.
Some very good points relating to the commendable conduct of match anglers have come out so far. Gathering facts and opinions from a diverse range of viewpoints is the intention of this thread so thats a result

[JimC]

now the last time i made this post here it was deleted, which i was disappointed at.
i think all aspects of angling, good or bad, should be discussed and debated here

I have looked back over the "Mod Logs" and see no instance of post deletion.

[chuckaroo]

now the last time i made this post here it was deleted, which i was disappointed at.
i think all aspects of angling, good or bad, should be discussed and debated here

I have looked back over the "Mod Logs" and see no instance of post deletion.

well it was a deleted.
its over a year ago now and i think that it may have even been a new topic that I had created on the same subject.
i was keen (maybe a little too keen!...) to air my views on the damage being caused by competitions and I was looking for other peoples opinions too; I wanted to make people aware of what I had witnessed that day
I can assure you that I made this post. one or two people relied to it and then the whole topic was removed, without explanation
regardless, my opinion is clear above now..

[myworldfishing]

I am sick of reading these posts.....

if your worried about anglers doing damage then do your part and give up fishing. And dont tell me you strict c&r, some of the fish released die...

[Deleted User 3488]

The destruction of habitat by commercial fishing, mussel dredging or even nature is probably the biggest contributor to fish stock decline along our coasts.

[sailnfish]

I am sick of reading these posts.....

if your worried about anglers doing damage then do your part and give up fishing. And dont tell me you strict c&r, some of the fish released die...

If you're worried about posts of a certain type, why not give up reading them ?

The topic relates specifically to repeated competitive angling at the same mark, not angling in general. I don't exclusively practice catch and release, I take the odd fish for the table if there is a good run, no problem with anyone doing that.

The comp that sparked the question( as with all my posts, I'm open to correction here) will have 90 pegs so 180 rods, and there'll be a fair proportion of these digging Bait too.
I think it's well worth asking members for their opinions as to whether or not that has a lasting effect on the mark. One of those stretches is where I grew up and is the first place I fished as a child and continue to do so.

I'm in no way prejudiced towards competitive angling. The only reason I posted this is to gather as much varied evidence from all viewpoints before forming a concrete opinion

Tight lines

[sailnfish]

The destruction of habitat by commercial fishing, mussel dredging or even nature is probably the biggest contributor to fish stock decline along our coasts.

No doubt about that.

[red]

The comp that sparked the question( as with all my posts, I'm open to correction here) will have 90 pegs so 180 rods, and there'll be a fair proportion of these digging Bait too.

I presume its the Master Angler you are talking about.
Yes it will have 90 anglers but they will have one rod out at a time over 3 legs.
As for bait, i might be wrong here but i dont think its a bait supplied competition so anglers will be getting bait for themselves. They are coming from all over the country and I would assume that only cork lads will be digging in cork with the odd exception. The lads have put in a lot of time, effort and preperation to qualify for this competition and i cant imagine many will turn up without bait already dug.
A major plus point is the money it will bring to east cork. 90 anglers and officials from the ifsa will be booking into b&bs in east cork. They will all need feeding too so it is pumping well needed funds into the local economy.