There's no shame in tiddler bashing, is there?

Message

#21 Post by **Eoghan** » Tue Jun 06, 2006 8:48 am

Ok, where do I say I dont catch tiddlers..? What I did say was that I dont deliberately target them. And yes I have caught undersize bass on 3/0 but to be fair its a lot harder to do so than using a smaller hook.

And your point on smaller hooks being easier to remove..?? Do you actually fish..? How many times have you had a small/medium fish swallow a small hook so far down that you have had to throw it back with the hook still inside..? If a small fish is hooked on a 3/0 the chances are that it will be lip hooked at best.

Lads, if you are going to post an open question on the forum its fair to expect someone not to agree with you. Dont then throw all your toys out of the pram when someone does..!

#22 Post by **Drew** » Tue Jun 06, 2006 9:31 am

I don't think anyone has thrown any Toys out of the Pram mate, Just expressing our views, which may happen to be quite strong on this particular Subject...

Rockhopper · #23 Post by **Rockhopper** » Tue Jun 06, 2006 9:48 am

One of the things I like best about saltwater fishing, either on or offshore is the not knowing what your going to catch, you can target all you like, the fish don't read the same books as the anglers.

"Do you actually fish" to answer your question YES! enough to know that the use of a 3/0 hook wont guarantee a lip hooked fish. Not once in any of your posts have you mentioned the use of circle hooks to try and not gut hook a fish, that's a better method than you preach, why do you think the long-liners use them, less chance of a gut hook will keep the fish alive longer and mean fresher catches for the icebox.

Your first post almost accused most of the members here of targeting tiddlers, spend more time reading and like Drew said, you will see some strong views on juvenile fish and catch and release.

If your seeing any toys coming out of the pram, take a good look, they may have your name on them :lol: :lol:

Tom.

#24 Post by **liamdenn** » Tue Jun 06, 2006 10:28 am

I have to bail in behind eoghan here. this is not about a by catch of undersize fish but rather going out with the intent purpose of catching undersize fish. Its wrong full stop. I am surprised at people who seem to have a fair idea of what they are doing advocating such methods. shame on you all!

#25 Post by **Eoghan** » Tue Jun 06, 2006 10:35 am

Lads I didnt accuse "most of the members", just said that I didnt feel it was right to target juvenile fish. Now you are just twisting words.

Like I said, if you dont want an opinion that conflicts with yours then dont post a question in the first place.

I didnt accuse anyone, just said I dont think it is right to target juvenile fish. End of story.

#26 Post by **Drew** » Tue Jun 06, 2006 10:41 am

But all I personally am asking is 'What if they're the only thing there?' I'd love to be somewhere where 3 to 4lb Fish are an option, But in truth, I'm not. Quite frankly Im happy if I get a 2lb Dogfish from the Shore around here, cos there's nothing Bigger for me to target on my Local Marks.
But thats just the way it is.

Thats all I have to say on this subject.

#27 Post by **liamdenn** » Tue Jun 06, 2006 10:46 am

where bouts are ya drew, Maybe there are a few ppl on the forum that can point you towards fish although you seem to have done ok according to your species list a the bottom of your posts!!

#28 Post by **Drew** » Tue Jun 06, 2006 10:58 am

The Species are never a problem here Liam mate, its the size, and unless your going to Bangor on a Conger/Wrasse hunt you're not going to pick up anything Huge, yanno...

Rockhopper · #29 Post by **Rockhopper** » Tue Jun 06, 2006 12:26 pm

Liamdenn,

I think I come under the banner of knowing what I'm doing, but I hope my joke about the vicar and the showgirl doesn't make you think I advocate targeting under size fish, far from it! check my posts if you like.

This thread started off between the lads having a bit of banter about whats there for them to catch, I understand what they're saying and why they're saying it. Eoghans first post came over as taking them to task for it and preaching to them....if I picked it up wrong, someone will have to show me where, I've read it over a few times, as I hope you and others read mine over and tell me where I advocate catching small fish.

I do stick by every word said in my last 3 posts though. I've yet to come across an angler rushing to tell me what a great time he had catching tiddlers. Don't forget tiddlers are what anglers use to catch bigger fish, is that wrong too.

I'm not trying to throw the cat among the pigeons here, just adding my 2 cents to the debate :D

Tom.

Livid · #30 Post by **Livid** » Tue Jun 06, 2006 12:51 pm

liamdenn wrote:I have to bail in behind eoghan here. this is not about a by catch of undersize fish but rather going out with the intent purpose of catching undersize fish. Its wrong full stop. I am surprised at people who seem to have a fair idea of what they are doing advocating such methods. shame on you all!

You'll be delighted to learn that i'll be using me beachcaster tonight to catch fish the length of my finger :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

This thread was started as a bit of a laugh when i was drunk but has seemingly opened a can of worms. :shock:

#31 Post by **hairyconger** » Tue Jun 06, 2006 1:03 pm

Livid wrote:
liamdenn wrote:I have to bail in behind eoghan here. this is not about a by catch of undersize fish but rather going out with the intent purpose of catching undersize fish. Its wrong full stop. I am surprised at people who seem to have a fair idea of what they are doing advocating such methods. shame on you all!

You'll be delighted to learn that i'll be using me beachcaster tonight to catch fish the length of my finger :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

This thread was started as a bit of a laugh when i was drunk but has seemingly opened a can of worms. :shock:

Always happens to me mate aswell.....shouldnt be surfing drunk :lol: :lol:

#32 Post by **col** » Tue Jun 06, 2006 1:05 pm

[quote="Livid"]
You'll be delighted to learn that i'll be using me beachcaster tonight to catch fish the length of my finger :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
quote]

Thats all I ment be going lighter, don't see much point in using heavy beach gear(like I normally would) when in all likelyhood all your gonna catch is a few smaller ones. :oops: thats my last word on this, nowt wrong with a bit o debate.

#33 Post by **Eoghan** » Tue Jun 06, 2006 1:33 pm

My reply was :

"Lads, is it not best to leave juvenile fish alone. We may think they go back alive but can you be certain that the trauma caused to them will not cause them harm. "

Thats hardly having a go at anyone is it...?
It was morfe of a question than a statement.

Im not trying to be smart but I think a few people here have got a bit too defensive and touchy over this.
Im also not here to piss anyone off as I think the site is quality and if I have done so then I apologise but I completly believe in what I have said.

#34 Post by **liamdenn** » Tue Jun 06, 2006 1:55 pm

Look lads this is silly. This site used to be about sharing info and ideas about fishing, and was damn good at it too. this kinda of drunken posting is of no benifit to anyone, only causes arguments not to mention if the anti angling lobby saw it! Regardless of whether it was in jest or otherwise it is illegal to target undersize fish and does this site no favors from a pr viewpoint but more importantly from a user perspective. Maybe it happens to all forums when they reach a certain size but i am disapointed and saddened to see what this site sometimes decends into. also having looked at that cafe section I fail to see the relevence at all to fishing and think it only encourages idiots to have their say on nothing to do with fishing. I am all for free speech but I think Kieran should have a veto as it is his site and also that over the years he has proved himself to be a very resonable, honest and fair man. The abuse directed at him some time ago was sickening after all the work he has done and if he has to get rid of people who give nothing positive to the forum then I give him my full backing as a site user for almost 4 years

#35 Post by **Drew** » Tue Jun 06, 2006 2:18 pm

So what you're telling me is I shouldn't fish at all in my Local Area? :?

Liam,
The drunken posting by Livid is just something that everyone does, Hell the amount he drinks you;d never get a post out of him! :lol: .

Regardless of whether it was in jest or otherwise it is illegal to target undersize fish

Im not getting this, Im not getting this, half the people I listen to are telling me to scale down my tactics to improve my Catches (I personally use 1/0 Black Aberdeens for all my scratching), then Im reading this hearing its 'Illegal'. I target fish for Sport, Not food, and fish always get the best of care while unhooking and returning. I can see how the retaining of small fish is a Problem, but not returning them, I see a very small percentage of fish not going back properly (Pouting seem to be hell for it, thats about it.)

Many of the friends I've made on this site have gave me varying advice as to Targetting certain species, I wasn't half as good 2 years ago as I am now, and thats thanks to this site. But nobody has ever downtalked the use of Smaller Hooks.

Livid himself is at the Level I was at 2 Years ago, and is improving all the time (He's beat me loads! :evil:). We're both users of 'That' Cafe section, which has been introduced as a chance for Anglers to have bit of banter between eachother, A lot of us have met cos of this forum, and its the only chance besides on the beach that we get to have a yarn.

And Finally, I haven't seen many Idiots on this site lately, I've seen a lot of people eager to learn, and a lot of people eager to participate in this forum, but No idiots, thank god.

"Dangling" most certainly isn't a crime, never has been, Never will be.

Rockhopper · #36 Post by **Rockhopper** » Tue Jun 06, 2006 2:23 pm

Well Liam,

Ya got that off ya chest :lol: unless you like playing to an audience IMHO that's the kind of rant that should have been sent to kieran in a PM, but its a free speech forum, so you have every right to say what you did.

Before I go any further if you have any issues with me, I have a PM button like everyone else.

The cafe was started for what IMO its used for "off topic" craic among the lads, I for one find some of the things on there funny. As for someone making a post half drunk, who cares, he never offended the moderators otherwise they'd have jumped on it.

As to the abuse you recon Kieran got a while back, your the one out of line to even mention water that's gone under the bridge and been settled, I can only remember a strong debate that took place, if the thread you speak of is the one I'm thinking of...did you come out and say your peace then...if you did fine...dead right, but if not, then IMHO your pulling a scab off a sore that's almost healed :(

But for you to be talking of " Idiots" and "getting rid of people"......that shame is on you mate!! not nice in an open forum, like I said, any issues you have with me or anyone else in this thread, PM Kieran and let him know :)

Just my 2 cents as an older angler who believes in live and let live :lol:

Tom.

#37 Post by **petekd** » Tue Jun 06, 2006 5:30 pm

Just a quick couple of points in relation to one or two of the issues raised in this....

Is it somehow a worse offense to be tackling smaller sized fish or targetting bass in the close season? :?

In relation to the "Scomber Cafe" I have heard one or two people speak out against this forum as if in some way it has detracted from the site. I for one do not agree. The regular posters in Scomber Cafe are also our more prolific posters in the relevant reports & Q&A forums. The Stevecrows, Northern crews etc for example. It was introduced as far as I am aware to keep the fishing posts about fishing and have somewhere for a bit of craic which it is doing admirably. It is not the case that because we have a forum for this form of banter, daft though some of the content can be :D that the fishing side of the site has disimproved, far from it. I just wish to god that more anglers south of the border would put fingers to keyboards a bit more often and let us know how they are all getting on!

At the end of the day, small fish are what the majority of us cut our teeth on so to speak, being prolific and easy to catch in areas and as long as they are handled carefully and returned then there shouldnt be a problem, particularly if thats all you have to fish for. I have more of a problem with the likes of the people fishing at places like De Wall and treating the numerous little fellas with complete disdain and no care at all to the extent that there at times are a carpet of belly up little codling floating past you.

#38 Post by **Drew** » Tue Jun 06, 2006 5:33 pm

Well said Pete.

Livid · #39 Post by **Livid** » Tue Jun 06, 2006 5:41 pm

petekd wrote:Just a quick couple of points in relation to one or two of the issues raised in this....

Is it somehow a worse offense to be tackling smaller sized fish or targetting bass in the close season? :?

In relation to the "Scomber Cafe" I have heard one or two people speak out against this forum as if in some way it has detracted from the site. I for one do not agree. The regular posters in Scomber Cafe are also our more prolific posters in the relevant reports & Q&A forums. The Stevecrows, Northern crews etc for example. It was introduced as far as I am aware to keep the fishing posts about fishing and have somewhere for a bit of craic which it is doing admirably. It is not the case that because we have a forum for this form of banter, daft though some of the content can be :D that the fishing side of the site has disimproved, far from it. I just wish to god that more anglers south of the border would put fingers to keyboards a bit more often and let us know how they are all getting on!

At the end of the day, small fish are what the majority of us cut our teeth on so to speak, being prolific and easy to catch in areas and as long as they are handled carefully and returned then there shouldnt be a problem, particularly if thats all you have to fish for. I have more of a problem with the likes of the people fishing at places like De Wall and treating the numerous little fellas with complete disdain and no care at all to the extent that there at times are a carpet of belly up little codling floating past you.

Good post!

#40 Post by **liamdenn** » Tue Jun 06, 2006 6:15 pm

All I will say on the above is that as someone who is doing something proactive about our recreational sport fishing it makes our job a lot harder when recreational anglers set out with the intention of targeting under size fish and then post about it on places like this.
"You'll be delighted to learn that i'll be using me beachcaster tonight to catch fish the length of my finger"
How does it look when we are lobbying the fisheries board to try and stop illegal fishing when they can argue that recreational anglers are not only catching undersize fishbut bragging about targeting them online. (which is you will find illegal)
As for the posterswho want to come on and discuss on a fishing website what their favorite colour is or other such nonsense maybe I should learn to live and let live but it certainly detracts from my enjoyment of the site.