what rod for tope

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RobertMcClean · #21 Post by **RobertMcClean** » Mon May 29, 2006 10:47 am

Yeah, one of the biggest Shore caught tope in my opinion was cuaght by my angling partner, Phil Fox.(See Specimen Photo Section) He has caught a lot and his rod of choice is the Conoflex SLR,- why? - It's light, powerful yet not to powerful to pull the hook or make casting impossible. I believe you need a light rod if you are going to be playing any big fish for a decent period of time. :)

Rockhopper · #22 Post by **Rockhopper** » Mon May 29, 2006 11:26 am

Robert,

I agree 100%, I was told years ago by Neil Mackellow quote "don't ever think because a rod will bend that's its not powerful" I always take a rod or a blank and put the tip onto the ceiling and give it a press to see where the back-bone starts, likewise "lightweight" does not mean weaker, with the modern materials they use now even some inexpensive rods are quality far beyond what was one sale at a likewise price 10 years ago.

Tom.

Liamo · #23 Post by **Liamo** » Mon May 29, 2006 6:04 pm

Hi,

Any standard beachcaster that will cast 6oz with bait is more than enough. In fact it's probably overgunning it but most shore tope venues I've encountered have a good tide run and it's conditions more than the fish that dictate the tackle required.

I use my ordinary Daiwa Supercasts, Penn 525's loaded with 15lb mainline and they are more than powerful enough. Step up to an 80lb leader though, have had fish slice through 60lb mono with their tail.

Rig wise I find clipped down running paternosters best. 6/0 viking on an 18inch 70lb+ wire trace (or 200lb mono but very bulky). Again the rig is built from 80lb mono.

Bait - from the shore I wouldn't waste my time fishing anything but fresh all the time. They can be fussy about frozen bait and it results in timid bites, lack lustre runs and dropped fish. or maybe the fish in Kerry are just smarter :-) My favs are in this order: fresh launce section, fresh mackerel and garfish

Fresh launce are easier to get than you might think, go mackerel fishing off deep water rock marks but use shrimp rigs. You'll be surprised how many are around at times and this early in the year I find they pick up more mackerel too when they are patchy.

Will post a pic here in the next day or two of a nice fish taken on the last set of springs if I get a chance.

All the best,
Liam

#24 Post by **Neil** » Mon May 29, 2006 9:31 pm

Rockhopper wrote:Neil,

You use words like "stiff poker" some beachcaster rods are stiff, but don't forget what some of the tournament casters say "if you cant bend it, you wont send it" most beachcasters rated 5oz-8oz will deliver a big enough bait into the strike zone (50yds-100yrds) for a Tope.

.

I quite agree, the only difference is in degree of stiffness. I doubt that any of the 'serious' beachcasters get bent to the point of lock-up during a (fishing) cast. I am begining to think that the era of the "stiff poker", designed originally to cast long distances off shallow UK east coast beaches is on the wane. Is there anywhere else but in the UK that makes a sport of casting? Is there anything more futile than chucking a lump of lead as far as you can in a field? The long continental rods are reported to be much lighter, but yet achieving long distances, with much less effort (I don't have one of those :shock: ).

The casting tournament circuit has distorted rod design, in my view, to the detriment of actual fishing. Lets face it (and getting back to topic! :wink:), if you tried to cast a whole mackeral flapper, even with a 'fishing pendulum', never mind a 'casting pendulum', you'd leave most of the bait on the beach behing you. There remains the point to answer of the bigger weights required to hold in a tide run. I understand that the long rods will cast 5-6 oz, but I honestly think that a 3 oz grip will hold just as well. Having said that, I've fished Greystones when the tide has pulled out the 5 oz gripper and pulled the rod off the tripod . :oops:

:idea: Longer grip wires..........

Rockhopper · #25 Post by **Rockhopper** » Mon May 29, 2006 10:21 pm

Neil,

Some of what your saying here may cause offense to anglers as well as rod designers or manufacturers and from the way you say it your only going on hear say anyway.

Casting is as popular in lots of European countries like Italy, France, Belgium and Greece that I know of, and its very big in the US as well as Japan, South Africa and Australia.

This thread was started by a guy asking about a Tope rod, if any fish in our waters can lock a beachcaster up its the run of a Tope, even one of about 20lb in weight. You may loss most of your bait in the cast, but a proficient caster wont, that comes with effort and knowing what rod suits your style of casting.

The long rods that the Europeans are using are user friendly to a novice, put one in the hands of an angler who knows how to get the best from a 13ft beach rod and he wont thank you for it. The long rods are also bringing lots of other problems not normally seen with the UK style beach rod....the bite detection on a 5m rod is poor if its meant for casting distance, if you soften the tip section the bite are seen better but you start to have recovery problems if using a fixed spool, line twist and whats called by some, wind knots.

I come from the north east coast of England, we have deep water at our feet, few of our beaches are shallow and it had at one time plenty of fish, back in the 80's, a stiff rod was still handy if you needed to bounce a 10lb Cod on to a rock from some height... but we were a lot luckier than the guys on the south east coast, if they couldn't cast a long distance they didn't catch fish (possibly one reason why a lot of top caster came from that neck of the woods) that seems to be the trend everywhere now, with fish being so few and far between.

learn to cast and have the rod to get you distance and on a bad day when the fish are far off, you'll get one, any rod can cast close in, but not all rods or anglers for that matter can get distance when its needed.

Last night I fished a beach that seems quite deep, but there was really strong tide pull and lots of thin snotty weed, if you knew how to address the conditions it wasn't a problem to hold bottom, I started with a 5oz gripper and ended up with an 8oz gripper, at all times my line was straight out in front of me...can I say if your having problems holding bottom and having rods pulled out of a tripod, your not doing it right, me thinks line to tight to soon is your problem.

Tom.

#26 Post by **beachcaster** » Mon May 29, 2006 10:51 pm

neill i would just like to say that i personally enjoy casting and have formed the ulster casting club with some mates and i know that leinster are trying to do the same thing and all of us are trying to get an irish casting team back on the world map.most rods are at one time or another put in the hands of casters so they can give feedback to the rod makers about how the rod performed,rods such as zziplex and century have all done this at one time or another in the form of prototypes.and if you think its a futile exercise you should come along and see what goes on and have a go yourself.there are a lot of people out there who think they can cast and think they do so safely i can assure you this is not the case and some dont even use shock leader,there knots are to say the least dangerous and some really are an accident waiting to happen.we have had the pleasure of coaching the ulster under 14 and 21 teams in the right way to cast and to there credit they took most of it on board and it has helped them all.we have also helped people who when they first came could cast about 50-60 yards and who now are well over 130 yards and improving every meet.so this futile exercise has helped a lot of people young and old to improve there skill in casting and safety levels and will continue to do so for a long time .john lynch chairman ulster casting club

#27 Post by **Drew** » Mon May 29, 2006 11:05 pm

I can only Echo what John has said, and put my name down as another satisfied U.C.C. member.

#28 Post by **Neil** » Tue May 30, 2006 12:02 am

Well, I've set the cat amongst the pidgeons!

I have to admit to complete ignorance of the casting scene, and my reading of these casting comps in the fishing mags was minimal. I had no idea that it was so widespread. Is this a direct consequence of declining fish stocks?:wink: I can only say that, from a personal point of view, I just can't understand the appeal; it leaves me cold -but if you're into it then enjoy.

We can all discuss the pros and cons, but at the end of the day, we do what we enjoy doing. I don't enjoy much pulling a pin whiting out of the surf with my Penn Voyager even with the light tip. Nothing I have heard has convinced me that the heavy beachcaster is desirable or necessary but I accept that other opinions differ. And at the end of the day, I haven't actually caught a tope on my light carp rod! While the original post asked about a rod for tope (I bet he wished he'd never asked :)), we've digressed widely, but it's been a lively and interesting discussion.

#29 Post by **Cooke** » Tue May 30, 2006 12:36 am

The majority of my shore tope have fallen to my Zziplex GS Special Match, an old bendable rod that I am comfortable and confident with casting at night. With big baits, possibly up to 8ozs of fish and a 5oz weight, I want to cast in a controlled manner to a reasonable distance. I don't want any flap ups on the reel which might introduce a weak point so a gunned down reel and an easy cast serves me well. From my experience, barring any defects in the tackle, the only time that a tope potentially breaks free is from an underset drag or when the fish rolls back on the mainline. The latter is most likely to occur when the fish is within landing distance. Shore tope are an exciting, impressive and adrenelin inducing fish but they are not the hardest fighting fish around and the neccessity for heavier gear is to combat the conditions in which they are targetted and the destructive nature of the fishes body i.e. teeth and hide. Tope do not head for snags or wrap your gear around mooring ropes etc. I had a 5lb 2 oz mullet at the weekend which tested my tackle handling more than any tope ever did.

LAR · #30 Post by **LAR** » Tue May 30, 2006 1:37 am

thanks lads for all your replies didn't think there was that much to it, ill give it a blast and post if it get anything :?

LAR · #31 Post by **LAR** » Tue May 30, 2006 1:38 am

thanks lads for all your replies didn't think there was that much to it, ill give it a blast and post if it get anything :?

#32 Post by **MAC** » Wed May 31, 2006 3:46 pm

Tom,

I would be interested in how you hook a flounder for a live bait rig for Tope :?:

I'll be at the SAI meet and wouldn't mind having this option if I can even catch a flounder.

Cheers,

Kevin

Rockhopper · #33 Post by **Rockhopper** » Wed May 31, 2006 4:40 pm

Mac,

Send me a PM with your email adress and I will send you a diagram.

Tom.