Surface popper v's sub surface

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#1 Post by **Eoghan** » Thu May 03, 2007 9:37 am

Just wondering what peoples thoughts are on this one.
Lets say a particular mark could accommodate both, which would you use...?

There have been times I am fishing with a surface plug thinking would I do better with a sub surface and vice versa. I think both have their merits and have caught Bass on both.

I think a surface plug can attract a Bass from further away but am not always convinced that a Bass will take one as easy as they will a sub surface plug.

#2 Post by **inigo** » Thu May 03, 2007 10:02 am

Hi Eoghan. I've always heard that sub-surface are more successful, but getting a bass on a popper is much more fun. You'll probably know better than me...

I suppose the conditions will play a part. If the sea is flat, a disturbing noisy popper with bright colours, if rough, shallow/deep diver? I'm after some lipless darters, half popper half pencil, which will swim close to but under the surface. Apparently they're deadly in choppy waters where poppers fly over the waves.

teacher · #3 Post by **teacher** » Thu May 03, 2007 11:07 am

inigo wrote:I'm after some lipless darters, half popper half pencil, which will swim close to but under the surface. Apparently they're deadly in choppy waters where poppers fly over the waves.

I'm trying some of these out this year. I particularly like the action of the Smith Zipsea Pen.

Send JimH a PM, he has good selection of lures in stock ([url]http://www.bassfishing.ie[/url])

As regards surface vs sub-surface, I usually start with sub-surface and then move to surface. It might be daft, but I prefer not to create a commotion on the surface unless I need to .

#4 Post by **MAC** » Thu May 03, 2007 11:22 am

I know from trout fishing that fish prefere to take food at subsurface as it uses much less energy. I have never taken a Bass on a surface popper, not for the lack of trying........ I have had much more success using sub surface lures, even if just a couple of inched below the water. I do think though that a surface popper can draw fish into an area.....

Kev

#5 Post by **Eoghan** » Thu May 03, 2007 11:30 am

I tend to do the opposite. I start with a popper when it is still dark and then after 20 mins of light if I have no takes I move to a sub surface.

Im in Kerry again this weekend and will try both equally and see which produces. Im even thinking of bringing two spinning rods and doing alternative casts, one with a popper and one with a yozuri crystal minnow.

I was saying to pete that maybe this time of year the Bass are a bit more lethargic and a slow sub surface plug is the way to go.
Maybe they are not so focused on bait fish just yet.
With more Mackerel and bait fish about it might be different this time.

#6 Post by **pete** » Thu May 03, 2007 11:32 am

So far this year the bass i've taken on lures have all been sub surface although to be honest I haven't used the poppers yet (plan to this evening) this spring. I would add credence to what MAC says about poppers drawing fish into the area...from what I've seen over the last couple of months in Kerry and Cork bass are actively attracted by the vibrations/tremours generated by pulling lures through an area. It was almost that whilst not able to see the lure they sensed that some wounded/hunting/baitfish activity was taking place and came to investigate.

On the topic of poppers I've had better results by retrieving them really fast (Yo-zuri's) so that they almost fish subsurface before popping back out again. Not strictly by the books I know but it has worked for me.

teacher · #7 Post by **teacher** » Thu May 03, 2007 11:39 am

Eoghan wrote:I was saying to pete that maybe this time of year the Bass are a bit more lethargic and a slow sub surface plug is the way to go.

I always assumed the same, but with bass so scarce during the early season, I couldn't draw conclusions.

I'll be giving it a bash on the east coast this weekend so I'll try to mix the lures around a bit too.

#8 Post by **lumpy** » Thu May 03, 2007 11:41 am

if flyfishing with poppers my best results have been on an intermediate line an a relatively boyant popper. every tome you strip back the popper(retrieve) it causes a bow wave before going sub surface and then pops up to the surface again you get alot of surface disturbance and also the visual aspect of a fish swimming just sub surface.

#9 Post by **inigo** » Thu May 03, 2007 11:57 am

Those of you lucky enough to have the time to go fishing, please let us know how you get on with the plugs and so on. It'll have to do for me to read about your trips, soooo busy at the moment :cry:

#10 Post by **rapalajoe** » Thu May 03, 2007 9:08 pm

IMHO both possess an equal ability to catch fish.Its depend on your technique and the time you used it.

Surface lures-Pencil and Popper-Effective during calm sea.Popper create splash imitate baitfish activities on surface/predator fish attacking baitfish.Both sound and vibration attract the predator.Pencil-slow and steady walk the dog with pause imitate baitfish cruising on surface,fast walk the dog imitate fleying bait fish/panic baitfish.Both only effective during calm condition,in opposite condition both tend to be hopeless.

Sub surfaces lure-shad and minnow-Can be use effectively during calm and wavy condition.Many technique involve.Stop and go,fast steady retrieve,twitching,jerking,ripping,looping-imitate movement of baitfish.Rattle from the lure to attract predator via sound and vibration.

Both i think are equal,just use it in the right time,its just most people tend to have their favourite kind of lure and he will use that lure most of the time=the particullar lure will get most of the strike.Like me,i swear by a few colour of lure cause i like the color=that particular color get most strike since its always been use compare to the other lure in my lure box.

#11 Post by **JimH** » Thu May 10, 2007 2:21 pm

Regarding your decision making, the choice of using poppers or indeed surface lures can be made long before you decide to go fishing. Contrary to popular belief bass are an easy fish to catch once you have located them and analysed their feeding patterns and timings. Once this is achieved large numbers of the species can be caught in any one session by a reasonably competent angler.

The skills involved in lure fishing regarding success tends to come down to your choices of lure on the day. It of course also comes down to your choice of the correct equipment. No two days are alike so a range of lures should always be to hand. If you are fishing correctly, once you arrive at the water your experience will confirm to you whether to fish surface or not. This decision is often made simply from watching external influences over time.

Poppers and diving lures each have their day so do subsurface pencils and even falling lures - the range is endless. If you are numbers angler then you will tend to change your lure to find the correct 'trigger point'. If you are a big fish angler then your tactics will be different.

A recent session in Waterford last week produced 22 fish for one of my customers in just 90 minutes. It took one session (2hrs) with 4 fish caught to find the key lure. Having caught and returned 26 fish in two sessions he had learned the hunt and seek method both for finding fish and numbers or volume. (de-barbed hooks),

We then switched to fish quality and approached it differently over a different venue - it took a little longer but we found two fish of just under 8lbs. Again de-barbed hooks, 14lbs braid, shimano technium and a 7'-6" light lure rod. Both fish landed in under 90 seconds and returned.

You may want to catch more on the surface - its exciting - subsurface is just as (if not more productive) but not as heart stopping.

Jim

#12 Post by **Adam S** » Fri May 11, 2007 11:11 am

excelent post jim, good insight.

not that i do a lot of bassing myself..but when i have done i have caught best on subsurface on more ocassions than i have poppers. if i could chose just one bass lure it would be a shallow diving jointed crank.

but in this world where we are free to hoarde all the lures we want i always carry a selction of divers, surface lures and tobys etc

#13 Post by **JimH** » Fri May 11, 2007 12:51 pm

Thanks Adam. We definitely have a wonderful bass fishery in this country. I also believe that this fishery exists along 'most' of the coastline of Ireland and its often not necessary to travel very far to find fish so most anglers have access to it.

I often come across the term 'Removing the Myths of Bass Fishing'. Like i said before - any practical and competent angler knows there are no myths (propaganda written by egotistical anglers and fishing journalists) - i'm sure you know there is just some time spent on the water, a bit of work, listening and learning and then the fun begins.

Fly, lure, bait.... whatever floats your popper!

#14 Post by **inigo** » Tue Jun 05, 2007 12:50 pm

I was after this type of plug for some time. Just bought two Tiemco NightRaid 14cm, 17.5g on eBay for less than .10 each including delivery (half of other eBay shops). Hopefully I'll get them in no more than 10 days!! Only 10 left!! :twisted:

[img]http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/7762/tiemco1af9.jpg[/img]

[img]http://img509.imageshack.us/img509/3756/tiemco2st9.jpg[/img]

The shop is FishingDirectOnline. :wink:

Sea Angling Ireland

Surface popper v's sub surface

Surface popper v's sub surface

Bass fishing