Horrified to find this....

[Drew]

all these debates over leisure anglers releasing fish don't make any sense to me.
I've already posted a link to the central statistics office. In 2002, 2500 tonnes of skate and ray were landed. If a man desides to catch a couple of fish for the pot, it's not going to have any effect at all.

Thats a sickening statistic. :x

[Gillaroo]

OK Steve, what aspects of illegality are you 'pretty sure' about . .

It's just that I'm curious about this posting and what other anglers or fisherman's reaction to the movie shot is? Were you horrified on a 'conservation' level or was it for another reason?

[x]

It becomes an issue if you consider that there are supposed, according to government figures, to be 70,000 shore anglers and/or 50,000 boat anglers. Figures from http://www.marine.ie/home/publicationsd ... eports.htm

-see page 12, table 3.1

Assume, just for laughs, that all boat anglers are also shore anglers, so that the total number of sea anglers in the country is 70,000. Conservative, but bear with me.

2500t (long, uk) equates to 5600000lbs, if my conversion is correct, I did it on http://www.onlineconversion.com/weight_all.htm

5600000lbs/70000 anglers gives about each angler a catch of 80lb of ray annually before we approach an equivalence with commercial landings. If you assume an average ray weighs 5lb, an angler's individual annual 'quota' would be just 16 ray.

Is it now becoming clear that as anglers we have both a right to keep fish and a responsibility to consider that we can each contribute to a very significant 'environmental footprint'?

[jw]

pat,

i think the 70,000 figure would include everybody who cast a set of
feathers even once during the year. I don't believe for a minute
these people are really landing and killing 2,500 tonnes of ray every
year!!!!!!!!


How many people even know how to skin ray wings? My guess,
and it's only a guess, would be a lot less that a tonne of ray is killed by leisure anglers annually

[x]

I don't either, not for a minute. Anyone involved in that survey? I've yet to hear from anyone who was.

Nonetheless, that's not my point. I think if you study the UK experience of trying to improve the lot of RSA, you'll find that those are the sort of figures and analyses that anglers are having thrown back in their faces by government and commercials.

All the same, try to argue with government statistics, you'll be asked to provide alternative, demonstrable ones. Where's yours? Just stating that you think something is true or not isn't going to cut it.

I suppose I have the dubious luxury of, should I choose to, quoting figures I have from the 122 folks who took the time to fill out the SACN survey. It's figures point to a higher angling days and spend figure per angler, but then my figures are more recent than 2003, from which the original data was taken. As to the number of anglers nationally, or what all they catch - sorry, I have to base my figures on those that the government presented in that report.

I'm happy to argue the toss with anyone - nothing like lies, damned lies and statistics - but at least bring some figures. I'm only trying to make the point that just because you're on the forum and see a few dozen people posting catch reports, tha is not a representation of angling in this country, or the catch volume, or the value to the economy and society. It's only a very small microcosm of angling in Ireland. A very small one. Damned few anglers are bothered with the internet, or clubs, or the IFSA and all that......if we ever want angling to get a look-in in this country, we've got to stop selling ourselves short.

Read that report in full, and then, like I did, read the Seafood Strategy report - see where the profile of angling is in the grand scheme of things. Think it's right?

[x]

Lest anyone be unaware of what we have drunk away (not anglers - the lads with the seats in the Dail and nets), have a look at this....

http://www.worldseafishing.com/news/145 ... 01-29.html

We could have shore angling like that in this country, but not, and I repeat NOT, if we as anglers let commercial fisheries dominate management of marine resources.

[alannelson]

Lest anyone be unaware of what we have drunk away (not anglers - the lads with the seats in the Dail and nets), have a look at this....

http://www.worldseafishing.com/news/145 ... 01-29.html

We could have shore angling like that in this country, but not, and I repeat NOT, if we as anglers let commercial fisheries dominate management of marine resources.

Your right iceland is the place to be i know where id prefer to bait up something has to be done it would take years but start now before there wiped out completly are shores are full of spricks :!:

[x]

Ok, sorted. We all just move to Iceland. Anyone ever read 'Alice in Wonderland'?

[Andy Elliott]

pat,

i think the 70,000 figure would include everybody who cast a set of
feathers even once during the year. I don't believe for a minute
these people are really landing and killing 2,500 tonnes of ray every
year!!!!!!!!


How many people even know how to skin ray wings? My guess,
and it's only a guess, would be a lot less that a tonne of ray is killed by leisure anglers annually

Just wondering what your basing your guess on ?

From another forum

[img]http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g24/Ronaldo_album/sunday016.jpg[/img]

Andy

[alannelson]

Ok, sorted. We all just move to Iceland. Anyone ever read 'Alice in Wonderland'?

I get Alice and cinderella mixed up something ta do with a yellow brick road lol or big green net fishing over here is doomed :cry

[jw]

it was a random guess, pulled out of the air not meant to be an accurate figure, but really to make the point leisure landings would be very small compared to commercial landings, based on anglers I have personally met or fished with. Most of them wouldn't be bothered
to skin a ray and most only keep an occasional fish for the pot.

Are the tackle shops really selling gear to seventy thousand anglers?

Are the beaches really that busy?

think of how much a new trawler costs, diesel, insurance wages
for the crew and you get an idea of how much fish it must land
to pay the bills

[Andy Elliott]

.

Economic evaluation of Irish angling
The objective of Whelan & Marsh (1988) was to assess the economic importance of the
angling resource in order to facilitate its development potential in terms of generating income
and employment within the Irish economy. The study was prepared for the Central Fisheries
Board and covered game (salmon and sea trout), coarse and sea angling. Two surveys were
carried out: one of anglers resident in Ireland and the other of visiting anglers.
Whelan and Marsh (1988) estimated total expenditure by all anglers (sea and inland) in 1987
to be IRE£57 million, which supported 1,900 full-time job equivalents through direct, indirect
and induced effects in the economy and generated IR£15 million tax revenue. Around 5%
(43,600) of the Irish angling population at the time were estimated to be sea anglers

That's the results from a survey carried out in 1988 . both freshwater and sea anglers.
43.600 at that time were estimated to be sea anglers ,

Andy

[petekd]

Not 100% sure what the Irish population figures are at the moment but if we say for arguments sake its 4.5million, are we really to assume that only 1.5% of our population sea fishes? That only 1 person in 65 ever stands on a rock, beach etc? I have no other figures to back that up but I would find it hard to imagine that the figures could be that low.

[jw]

Pete,

I'm not trying to offend anyone here, and if you guys convince me I'll admit I'm wrong. Im no expert on this.

If there are 70,000 active anglers, around 15 seaside counties, around
5,000 anglers on average in each county would the beaches not be more
crowded?

Also Pete, I reckon you fish more than most and i remember a certain
breezy day in november when you caught your first and only thornback of the season, which was returned. I just can't see that hundreds or thousands of tonnes of ray are being landed?

[petekd]

Hiya John, Don't think anyone is taking offense to be honest. I was curious in relation to the figures for numbers of anglers to be honest that is all. I personally find it hard to believe that 70000 is even close to be honest. Especially if you take into account the string of feathers and a binliner brigade that invade an awful lot of marks in the summertime. I think the main point the other lads are making is that RSAs can absolutely most definitely have an impact on fish stocks. Thornbacks were merely being used as an example thats all.

Your right BTW, I only had 1 thornie last year.... :oops: In fairness, I hadnt at all targetted them. But on saying that, I have been aboard charter boats on good thornie ground in the Swilly and other areas where boxes have been filled on the day with thornies coming to the boat like pollack.

[kstaff]

With regard to the video itself, the water seems to be clear and shallow and the fish didn't seem put off by the rope with the hooks on it, does this tell us something about choice of snood color?

[barry murphy]

good point keith but would you be trying snoods that stand out a mile :lol: dont think it be worth chancing.