Illegal theft of water by fish farmers

[Caz-Galway]

Of course I know there are no crops growing in the area. I am making the point that to produce all food water is needed and don't tell me that all agricultural farmers are paying for freshwater use.

I am not justifying the pipe but the county council will take a decision and enforce the law if it has been broken.

I am not wrong on the use of Peroxide. It is used for lice but when freshwater has not been available in the past then Peroxide was used for this Ameoba problem a well.

Still no comment on the fact that using freshwater for treatments is by far and away better for the environment than chemicals.

Bradan would you like to see chemical baths used for Ameoba rather than freshwater?

You said yourself

since AGD puts fish off their feed and in-feed treatments don't work, so lice levels rise, requiring more hydrogen peroxide treatments

So encourage the use of freshwater baths and then we all win. I thought it was an IFI goal to reduce lice levels not cause an increase.

Caz

[joyster]

our water is sourced with the full knowledge of the council,ifi and the permission of the land owner to access their property. it is not taken from a public water source or migratory fish river and also has a chain of 5 inter connecting lakes upstream of our extraction point.

[Bradan]

Of course I know there are no crops growing in the area. I am making the point that to produce all food water is needed and don't tell me that all agricultural farmers are paying for freshwater use.

I am not justifying the pipe but the county council will take a decision and enforce the law if it has been broken.

I am not wrong on the use of Peroxide. It is used for lice but when freshwater has not been available in the past then Peroxide was used for this Ameoba problem a well.

Still no comment on the fact that using freshwater for treatments is by far and away better for the environment than chemicals.

Bradan would you like to see chemical baths used for Ameoba rather than freshwater?

You said yourself

since AGD puts fish off their feed and in-feed treatments don't work, so lice levels rise, requiring more hydrogen peroxide treatments

So encourage the use of freshwater baths and then we all win. I thought it was an IFI goal to reduce lice levels not cause an increase.

Caz

Of course freshwater is preferable to chemicals, but you seem to think freshwater is replacing chemicals - it is not. These freshwater treatments are an additional treatment for an additional problem - added to sea lice, infectious salmon anaemia, and various other diseases, all of which have occurred in outbreaks on salmon farms in Ireland. The fact is if you keep thousands of farm animals in an enclosed space, the parasite and disease load increases exponentially and you get outbreaks - the whole industry of farming salmon in open cages at sea is not sustainable without using vast quantities of chemicals, and now vast quantities of freshwater.

I am not saying fish farms cannot use fresh water. I am saying that they cannot use fresh water that they haven't got permission for - and they should be punished for breaking the law.
The lake they are stealing water from is a public water supply. It was set up to supply water to Carna and Kilkieran, but it now suplies water to a much wider area. As a result, the outflowing stream runs low for much of the time. This stream was a spawning stream in its lower reaches for sea trout from L. Scannive. By taking an additional 10 million litres, the stream will run dry and for a much longer period. Is that acceptable?

Put the farms on land, in closed containment systems, then we will have none of these disease and parasite problems infecting wild fish.

our water is sourced with the full knowledge of the council,ifi and the permission of the land owner to access their property. it is not taken from a public water source or migratory fish river and also has a chain of 5 inter connecting lakes upstream of our extraction point.

I presume you have an abstraction licence so? I'm sure Irish Water will be interested
I notice the wellboat has been making a few trips between Clifden and Killary - are you drawing water from one to the other?

[Caz-Galway]

This stream was a spawning stream in its lower reaches for sea trout from L. Scannive. By taking an additional 10 million litres, the stream will run dry and for a much longer period. Is that acceptable?

So Bradan, I take it that when the public water scheme was extended about 5 years ago, to include Cashel, Gowla, Glinsk, Letterard Moyrus, Rosmuc and Lochaniara that IFI objected on the same grounds?

Caz

[bogwoppit]

I presume you have an abstraction licence so? I'm sure Irish Water will be interested
I notice the wellboat has been making a few trips between Clifden and Killary - are you drawing water from one to the other?

I may be wrong on this but as far as I'm aware, you don't need an abstraction license so long as you don't alter any of the in stream structure.

Terrestrial farmers have been operating under this assumption for years.

I also understand that the freshwater treatments are very effective against the caligus lice and the juvenile stages of the lepeothirus lice, surely that's a bonus!

What worries me here is the disregard for planning laws, we all know where that got us in the past.

I was told that they will use the hydrogen peroxide in winter as it's very dangerous to fish at summer temperatures. I don't see the problem with using it at all, if my leaving cert chemistry memory is correct, it breaks down fairly quickly into just water and oxygen.

[Bradan]

I presume you have an abstraction licence so? I'm sure Irish Water will be interested
I notice the wellboat has been making a few trips between Clifden and Killary - are you drawing water from one to the other?

I may be wrong on this but as far as I'm aware, you don't need an abstraction license so long as you don't alter any of the in stream structure.

Terrestrial farmers have been operating under this assumption for years.

I also understand that the freshwater treatments are very effective against the caligus lice and the juvenile stages of the lepeothirus lice, surely that's a bonus!

What worries me here is the disregard for planning laws, we all know where that got us in the past.

I was told that they will use the hydrogen peroxide in winter as it's very dangerous to fish at summer temperatures. I don't see the problem with using it at all, if my leaving cert chemistry memory is correct, it breaks down fairly quickly into just water and oxygen.

The instream structure was drastically altered - a dam was constructed which blocked the river, in order to impound a pool from which to pump water. Access for migratory fish was completely blocked. It's my understanding that a prosecution will be forthcoming.

Marine Harvest are being challenged in court - an injunction is being sought by Friends of the Irish Environment to remove the pipe at Ardmore. The county council have denied the request for exempt development. MH applied for retention, even though they still don't have permission from landowners. In any case, retention cannot by law be considered for a development that requires environmental assessment, as this does. The council have stated their intention to issue an enforcement notice. I believe the council are only acting after concerted pressure and would have happily turned a blind eye to this illegal activity, probably due to instructions from above.
Irish Water gave no permission, but then didn't charge for the water - pressure from above? Meanwhile you and I and every other citizen will pay handsomely for water from next January, but they can take millions of litres for free...
In any case, it appears this pipeline will have to be removed

[Bradan]

Re hydrogen peroxide, this is what a fish looks like after treatment https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid ... =1&theater

Wonder would consumers be as happy eating salmon if they knew how the fish were treated?

[Crevan]

Jesus that fish must have been tortured!!

Thank you for highlighting this whole issue of water theft and the problems associated with theses farms.

Well done Bradan, keep it up

[joyster]

bradan, if this is what you would like people to think a salmon looks after a peroxide treatment then you should also tell them that you have little or no practicle experiance of the issue. as someone who is present at peroxide treatments on actual salmon farms on a regular basis i can assure anybody who is interested in the facts that the fish do not turn out like this after a treatment and if the did then the farm in question would not be in business for long as these fish would not be acceptable to the market.the photo in question is of a fish that has not been treated for lice at the appropriate time.

[Bradan]

bradan, if this is what you would like people to think a salmon looks after a peroxide treatment then you should also tell them that you have little or no practicle experiance of the issue. as someone who is present at peroxide treatments on actual salmon farms on a regular basis i can assure anybody who is interested in the facts that the fish do not turn out like this after a treatment and if the did then the farm in question would not be in business for long as these fish would not be acceptable to the market.the photo in question is of a fish that has not been treated for lice at the appropriate time.

You're right joyster, I don't have much practical experience except being present at harvesting time on a few occasions. But if the only people allowed to comment on salmon farming were those with practical experience i.e. industry employees themselves, we would NEVER hear of illegal practices, ignoring the law, chemical treatments, excessive use of pesticides and antibiotics, problems with lice infestation, amoebic gill disease, infectious salmon anaemia, etc etc. Everyone would believe the industry lies about organic salmon. Thankfully we live in a society with a free press and freedom of speech, and anyone can comment on the industry, so those lies can be exposed.
The above photo was not taken by an anti-fish farming person, it is from the Department of Fisheries and Oceans in Canada (a pro-aquaculture body). And as a lot of salmon is sold filleted, or smoked, the consumer would have no way of knowing what the fish looked like whole. It's easy to hide things from the consumer, just like it's easy to call something organic when it's not.

What would you consider the appropriate time to use hydrogen peroxide, by the way?

[Caz-Galway]

Hi All,

Glad to see and acknowledge that IFI have posted a link to a balanced article that includes this subject.

http://fishinginireland.info/news/news- ... ish-times/

Interesting to see that the local people are taking a stance with petitions and vocal support.

Caz

[Tanglerat]

http://www.fisheriesireland.ie/Press-re ... tocks.html

[ollie]

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/eu ... 86905.html

[Caz-Galway]

http://connachttribune.ie/hundreds-sign ... ater-pipe/

[Bradan]

http://connachttribune.ie/hundreds-sign-petition-in-support-of-connemara-water-pipe/

Hundreds of people sign a petition in favour of an illegal development? Oh, ok then, sure what do we need planning laws for... carry on lads!