Illegal shooting of seals

[nicefish]

Seals? Awww, seals are lovely.

With chips.

[samo]

great post tanglerat really added a lot to the discussion!

[twinkle]

the problem is shore anglers only have to contend with one or 2 at a time. and dont see them as a problem.but when you have 4 of them following the boat for hours, just for a free meal, its anoying.no matter how far or how much you move there with you within 5 minutes. i have often shifted from the stack at the back of the island, to the bailey on the other side of howth, and with in 5 minutes the same ones back joined by ten others.you can have 10 boats at the back of the island they would each have 3 seals to contend with .they have followed us out as far as the banks.and after burning a tank of petrol to get out there its not funny to see your gear and fish distroyed.i wont be back in the water till may but when i do go back il show you the amount of vermin there really is

[corbyeire]

Shooting seals and saving seals is basically the same thing "humans playing god". nature should be left to find its own balance.

humans interact with the natural world on every level, there is no longer a balance, we are in control or attempting to control everything, the systems are in continuous change, we are playing god with everthing in any case, going by the above definition

[samo]

Hi Corby,

i think its more a question of the level of interaction really in this situation which has caused the problem.

[yappo]

humans interact with the natural world on every level, there is no longer a balance, we are in control or attempting to control everything, the systems are in continuous change, we are playing god with everthing in any case, going by the above definition

Spot on mate, but who is monitoring the situation?, who should we talk to? No sense in us bitching and moaning on here.
I would like to know if there is a gov dept or 2 that I could ask for info on seal numbers and culls etc.
Anybody know where to start?

Yappo

[twinkle]

can find very little on line yappo as im sure you looked already they seem to have done bits here and there 2 islands in galway 2003[ greys] but did find this http://www.irishtimes.com/timeseye/offshore/p8b.htm i dont think there has been a national cull since 1976? when they became protected .

[hugo]

Sounds like what you need round Howth is a Killer Whale Sanctuary. That'd restore the balance of nature pretty damn quick.

[twinkle]

or a nice outbreak of destemper or myxomatsis or anything

[Creep]

Here lads some of ya's are going to hate me for my views me thinks, but having met most of yas I know exactly were your coming from....I used to work with these animals, here and abroad, first over fishing has made life difficult for the population of seals (and our selves!!!) there are two native species of seal that live around Ireland first is the grey seal (the one that looks like a big ol Lab, and the males cause alot of hassle with boats ) second is the Harbour or common seal small face cat like musch small then the grey lives on sandy shores) , rarely comes near anybody fishing, we also from time to time get drifters from the artic such as the Hooded seal, and walrus (yep you read that right!

population wise the grey seals arent that great in numbers (though they are getting higher slowly) but illegal seal culls keep happening and not all make the news or headlines... its estimated therough the NPW through ariel studies that the Grey seal population is around 3000 throughout Ireland... (not alot considering our coast line)

But think of this .. grey seals migrate I know cause I put a sattelite tag on a six month old pup, in under two months it went from Dublin, to Wexford, and back up, to Scotland.. at the sametime, Scotland were doing similar research and theirs went to South England.. Grey seals in general travel vast distances , Breeding Bulls (the males) hold on to territory in search of females ... and heres where the problems lie... people see seals in harbours extra (grey seals!) and aww look at the cute seal .. and feed them ..wrong wrong wrong.. I dont not agree with feeding them. first and foremost it lessens the fear of humans BIG BIG mistake!!! as seals are related to bears... in the USA they have signs DO NOT FEED THE BEARS same should be made here!!!

2nd Shooting seals, think of it .. solves the problem momentarly UNTIL the next big bulls come in from Scotland... or else where, yes bulls will fight over this "New" territory but in the end its back to square one...

For those who say seals eat fish... so do dolphins, whales (which we have 24 speices of), Harbour porpoise included, sea turtles and various sea birds (cormmrants, shags, gullimots, razorbills, etc ... so where do you start shooting???

It sounds horrible, but what i would like to see is 1st signs up Do Not Feed Seals!! ... in local Harbours (seals will learn this is not a food source over time) then Impilments in place to deal with troublesome seals, In one country they used scare tactics, effectively, the whiskers on seals are 10,000 times more sensitive then the touch of your finger tips, they can feel vibrations of a fish 10 minutes after its left the area..

I do not condone the mindless slaughter of seals, which does happen on a regular basis. I have seen it first hand.

Nor would i view them as vermin, being that they are marine mammals, but nor do i condone the cute image people have of seals, at the end of the day they are a predator and must be respected as such.

I hear an awful lot about seals approaching boats which is dangerous for both parties, but one fishing session i did recently I witnessed a pot man feeding a seal scraps off his boat while pulling in pots later i approached him in the harbour and enquired about teh relationship, which he simply viewed as his pet while out workin... not relising this same seal will approach other boats and will not be treated with the same affection.. I was told to "%£& off and mind my own bussiness!"


(here we go hitting post button now!!)

[Creep]

Other interesting facts about seals, the grey seal cow (female)can hold onto sperm of a bull for up to nine months before deciding to impregnant herslef or flush it for a better male , generally the cow will give birth to only one pup and that doesnt happen every year, she may decided to have a pup this year and retire from mother hood for another year.
the liver of a seal is the most unusal liver in the mammal kingdom, it can process salt water very effectively; unlike our liver being smooth, thiers are very bumpy

Just for info the picture of the seal with a shot in its head... That shot was carried out humanely by a marine mammal Vet (close range), as i understand it, the seal washed up dying on the beach from a lower wound shot probably diving to get out of the way. I have seen seals survive a shotgun blast to the lower back of the skull, half its skull was missing.... one washed in several years ago in a well known harbour and due to rough seas made humanely putting the seal down very difficult.

Us baaing for blood on seals culls, will in the public minds, only view us, as we veiw irresponible macky bashers who bash mackerel of pier walls, and litter up places

[Creep]

i knew it was not an isolated incident http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KfImv3KDgH4 not so cuddily here are they

Its a sealion and they can be VERY aggressive, funny thing is you'll see them in circuses and zoos, but our waters are to cold for them here... But there was a territoral seal in Sandymount a few years back (tried to make the 40ft its colony base) and it did bite a person, But heres the thing... if a male grey seal wanted to .. it has the power to rip the arms and legs clean off a swimmer... yet this swimmer recieved two minor cuts (which did have to be treated with antibiotics) but the shock factor will never leave that person...

I mysef have been bitten by pups (came with the job)
There is a large population of grey seal around the Saltees yes, and around Kerry as well, these are known breeding colonies and while i dont mind people viewing them, I hope NO ONE FEEDS THEM!! Most animals have a natural fear of humans, which for seals it must be maintained

[twinkle]

kev i agree with everything you say .but its what your not saying is it in anybodies interest to have these seals taken in and hand reared by seal sanctuaries .they have released statments saying the seals are playful,curious,cheeky.where in the states the experts have released statements telling us seals who have grown used to human contact are dangerous and are more libable to attack a human.than a completly wild one???? we have interfered with the natural balance of this species. how many of these seals have the sanctuary rereleased after treatment or how many abandoned pups have they reared and then released.even if it was only a hundred thats a 100 more fighting for terrotries and food. in all animals a mother will abandon young if there is something wrong with it iv seen it with birds, dogs,
ect.they can tell if its a retard. or mentally un balanced but us as humans cant detect these things in seals or any other species.to quote the phrase mother knows best. i know the battle between seal and fisherman is an old on e .but this has got a lot worse in three years out in howth.it was only the odd time you would have a seal visit but last season was a fiasco.

[yappo]

Hey Creep why would we hate your comments. The first bit of real info we have had so far. I will have a good read of the info provided by NPW thanks for the link.


Yappo

[Creep]

kev i agree with everything you say .but its what your not saying is it in anybodies interest to have these seals taken in and hand reared by seal sanctuaries .they have released statments saying the seals are playful,curious,cheeky.where in the states the experts have released statements telling us seals who have grown used to human contact are dangerous and are more libable to attack a human.than a completly wild one???? we have interfered with the natural balance of this species. how many of these seals have the sanctuary rereleased after treatment or how many abandoned pups have they reared and then released.even if it was only a hundred thats a 100 more fighting for terrotries and food. in all animals a mother will abandon young if there is something wrong with it iv seen it with birds, dogs,
ect.they can tell if its a retard. or mentally un balanced but us as humans cant detect these things in seals or any other species.to quote the phrase mother knows best. i know the battle between seal and fisherman is an old on e .but this has got a lot worse in three years out in howth.it was only the odd time you would have a seal visit but last season was a fiasco.

You draw up excellent points,
Having worked in these places, seals come in for various reasons, mainly the public finding them on public beaches when they are out with thier families, sons and daughters.. its within human nature to help orphaned animals... that being said lets look at the causes for pups being left...

first and foremost are storms .. grey seals give birth to thier pups in the worst time of the year winter, and they are reared on beaches .. we as shore fishermen know all to well about freak waves and as such these pups get washed away.

Disturbance, walkers, approaching a nursing beach the cow dives for cover into the sea leaving the pup behind (the seal sanctuary normally wait minium of 24hrs before lifting a seal unless on a public/heavy trafficed beach) .. (this is were life takes unexpected twist) young males will hang out in the surf, looking to take advantage of a cow, bite her on the back of the neck and force her under the water, meanwhile the big male is on constant watch for these but not seeing every single one. pup gets abandoned as she gets driven off by the big bull.

Illegal culls, during my years i noticed a huge influx of pups over the weeks after halloween, and then weeks after calls of dead seals being found.. yep more illegal culls, but this times not the male grey seals but nursing mothers (easy target)

Other means which I have seen: Trawlers during the winter months (when weather allows) coming into close to shore wiping out smallish fish which the cows are feeding off, hence the mothers needing to go out further and further some not making it back

In the years I was with the original ISS we maintain the view of these are predator mammals we nursed back to full health around 300 seals some where brough to england to help populate areas there that were hit by a seal distemper virus brought from denmark. Most of the seals get various forms of blood test done which can give you quite a bit of information in relation to underlying problems.
Care for these animals wasnt done on a cutesee image, most case we fed them through tube feeding (any farmers here will know that well) we force a stomach tube down thier throats and fed them various types of liquid feed. when they were older they moved to pools with a feeding area ... large pool with a huge plywood board setup to hide behind as we fed them.. we approached the board from behind out of view..
releases were mostly done in public which attracted 1000-3000 people onto beaches .. (trust me a crowd that size scared me let a lone the seal!!)

[Creep]

Hey Creep why would we hate your comments. The first bit of real info we have had so far. I will have a good read of the info provided by NPW thanks for the link.


Yappo

Twinkle will never want to go fishin with me again!!

[Creep]

Thing is I have never had major issue with seals (in fact some wierd fishing expereinces with a young female seal), but I do know and have seen young male bull greys seals getting way to close to boats and swimmers, and i feel if we adopt methods to scare these seals away inherent traits will be for seals to keep away from humans

@ twinkle I still havent had any luck sourcing lead

[corbyeire]

thanks for the comments creep

[twinkle]

Hey Creep why would we hate your comments. The first bit of real info we have had so far. I will have a good read of the info provided by NPW thanks for the link.


Yappo

Twinkle will never want to go fishin with me again!!

dont be silly kev im looking forward to a trip out just to let you try my new toy

[Creep]

Hey Creep why would we hate your comments. The first bit of real info we have had so far. I will have a good read of the info provided by NPW thanks for the link.


Yappo

Twinkle will never want to go fishin with me again!!

dont be silly kev im looking forward to a trip out just to let you try my new toy

Dear God they are BIG bass your going after!!!!!