advise on scratching rigs for rough ground

Message

#1 Post by **Donagh** » Mon Feb 20, 2006 3:56 pm

Any advise on scratching rigs for rough ground?

I've only ever tried scratch on clean ground with 3 hook paternosters.

Donagh

#2 Post by **iona** » Mon Feb 20, 2006 4:12 pm

more hooks means more snags.

i tend to fish 2 hooks. shortish snoods as long snoods get caught up easier.

use rotten bottom clips.

try to use hooks with some give built in. more so with small species.
kamazan b950u or 79515br vikings. these will bend out slightly.

ensure hook snoods are lighter than the trace body.

bimini twist to shock leaders gives strength when pulling out.

pull slowly and more often hooks will bend or lead will come off. quickly and the shock leader knot to tends to snap.

once the lead hits the bottom don't pull the mainline really tight because if your lucky you will find a non snaggy spot for the lead, pull tight and your more likely to drag it into a snag.
also when winding in do it quickly.

rough ground losses cant be avoided.

#3 Post by **Cooke** » Mon Feb 20, 2006 4:33 pm

Agree with most of what Iona says. I prefer long snoods if I can get away with them and try to eliminate as much metal from the trace as possible. Bloop-loops are fine if not power casting (refer previous thread). Build plenty of weak points into the trace - snoods , soft hooks, rotton bottom and be prepared to replace frequently, especially hooks and often the the whole lot !.

Rockhopper · #4 Post by **Rockhopper** » Mon Feb 20, 2006 4:56 pm

I agree also. Circle hooks can only help, as long as they are not offset.

I would also use (self made) grip leads, with very long (8" or longer ) wires, not for grip, but if you are hauling though rocks they don't get stuck fast as easy, once you feel the lead getting stuck, pull a bit harder and retrieve faster.

btw.....its best if you turn the wires back at the ends with the point facing down to the bottom, that will allow them to glide over rock easier.

Tom.

#5 Post by **IDPearl** » Mon Feb 20, 2006 5:09 pm

I actually stopped using wires on leads in areas with no big tidal run. Found that the lead could come through the rocks easier. Depends what type of rocks you are fishing into tho. If they're really snaggy, chances are you'll get stuck anyway, so if casting's not too distant, use old spark plugs as a sinker and some sort of rotten bottom. I would also use a pulley rig instead of multi snood rigs. If you do get hooked into a fish, he will lift your lead out of the way with a pulley.

Rockhopper · #6 Post by **Rockhopper** » Mon Feb 20, 2006 6:20 pm

Pully rig is fantasrtic for snaggy ground.

You may have picked me up wrong, I would never use the normal breagaway short wired sinkers for snaggy ground.

I done most of my fishing in the north east of England, the rocks dont come any worse, with the long wires (some as long as 12") they get you out of more snags than without, you just need to be aware of your gear at all times and feel for every little knock.

Tom.

#7 Post by **IDPearl** » Mon Feb 20, 2006 6:35 pm

Good comment Rockhopper. Never used the big wires myself, but on the shorter wires, I've deiberately dropped the lead on the dry rocks in front of me to see what happens underwater. With the short wires, the lead gets stuck in easily. Bending the out at 90 degrees to the lead improves things to an extent, but I still found a plain lead to be better. I did get hold of some leads with flat sides, which were great, but supply ran out.

Rockhopper · #8 Post by **Rockhopper** » Mon Feb 20, 2006 6:55 pm

Do you mean the "Watch Leads" round with a hole in the middle and a few cone shape bumps around one flat edge.

If you do, they come in sizes from 1oz up to 8oz possibly even bigger, I use them for Flatties, they are great if you need to move them a few inches at a time and still hold bottom in a strong tide, they get covered with sand easy and that holds them.

I get mine from a wholesaler in England, but I would think Henry's in Dublin would have them......he has almost everything else :) :)

Tom.

#9 Post by **IDPearl** » Tue Feb 21, 2006 6:56 am

No, these leads were as though you had a pear shaped lead but flattened 4 sides. Wish I could find a picture of one!

Rockhopper · #10 Post by **Rockhopper** » Tue Feb 21, 2006 9:38 am

They sound like the BreakAway leads, do they have the hook clip on with the plastic top?

I use those too....IMO a good Flattie scratching lead.

Tom.

#11 Post by **Drew** » Tue Feb 21, 2006 9:54 am

Breakaway flattie Leads Rock. :lol:

#12 Post by **BigPhil** » Tue Feb 21, 2006 7:56 pm

at the home international championships held at samphire hoe , dover in 2004 we had to use 3 hook scratching rigs in really really snaggy ground.
these were basically 3up rigs built on 60 or 80 lb body with 6inch to 12 inch snoods tied from 15-20lb line onto size 2 or 4 hooks. rotten bottom set ups were a must on most pegs.
we were targetting poor cod, pouting, wrasse and blennies with a few doggies.(somehow a junior pulled a dover sole also)!!!!
the theory behind it was that if you used 30lb mainline and got snagged up on the retrieve by a hook that hadnt a fish on that the snood would break first. fine wire kamasan aberdeen match hooks were also used so they could straighten or bend out if snagged.

#13 Post by **fish4fun** » Wed Feb 22, 2006 1:43 am

Phil, that's the same tactic I was told to use when I've fished it a couple of times. keep the rotten bottom longer than usual at about 18 inch just to keep your bottom hook clear. I used 20lb line for rotten bottom knotted a couple of times to give weak spots. Don't lob more than 30-40 yards and you can get some decent fish. The tactics in the summer gave small blennies to a decent pollack of a couple of pounds, a welcome relief from fishing for 6 inch pout.

#14 Post by **BigPhil** » Wed Feb 22, 2006 6:34 pm

the weak link system seemed to work better as you say by being that bit longer, this is often the case on other venues just to keep those dangling hooks awat from the worst of the snaggy bottom. most of my fish were taken in tight on it but using the gemini genie breakers you can still blast it out if you want to.
it also seemed to work well on a trip to teelin last summer taking double and treble shots of poor cod, pouting and wrasse.

#15 Post by **Donagh** » Thu Feb 23, 2006 5:33 pm

Very interesting reading thanks for all your replies. I use pulley rigs alot fishing the ground I do but wouldn't use them as an out and out scratching rig as small fish won't pull the lead up. I'll try out all the paternoster suggestions. One thing after thinking about it I might do is use powergum stop knots to trap the swivels in case i were to get a slightly larger fish. I've broken a gut bringing doggies in on patenoster over shallow rough ground only to loose them 20 yards out. Thats why I use pulleys so much.

BTW On leader knots I use one that incorporates a spider hitch wrapped into a half hitch that was in SA this time last year. Very easy to tie and gives near to 100% knot strength.

Donagh

#16 Post by **fish4fun** » Fri Feb 24, 2006 1:31 am

Another thing I learned about Samphire Hoe is if lobbing out and it goes quiet switch to down the side. regulars often bag up with double and treble shots when no size limits, catch and release. When you do this use lighter gear such as a bass rod or even spinning rod.

I learned the hard way last match I fished on there two summers ago. was using a Greys Apollo MK1 and must have been well ahead in my zone. When it got quiet I went down the side like everyone else. They were pulling in 2's and 3's of small pout. I could see bites but the gear was either not sensitive enough and I was missing them or the fish felt the resistance. I was only getting the odd single and occassional double. In the end I was 6th in zone 30 points behind the winner (the equivallent of 6 pout).

Following day fishing for pleasure me amd my mates were getting doubles and trebles in seconds using the bass/spinning rods in seconds. Had hundreds even on dried up mackerel strips so learned how to do it next time.

#17 Post by **BigPhil** » Fri Feb 24, 2006 2:56 am

yep, the tactic for that side of things seemed to be bass rod, fiwed spool spinning reel and braid! id love to go back with suitable conditions tough for a crack at the garfish!

#18 Post by **fish4fun** » Sun Feb 26, 2006 2:22 am

Had a chance to go back for a match in June but I'm on holiday with the family.

The day after the match one of the lads had a small Black Bream on the float. Saw some big pout caught the first time I fished it which was in November time of year. Some well over 2lb.

#19 Post by **BigPhil** » Mon Feb 27, 2006 7:44 pm

yep one was caught, the biggest pout ive ever seen, including from the boat....easy specimen fish! id say if conditions were right it would produce a great varity of species

#20 Post by **lumpy** » Tue Feb 28, 2006 3:53 pm

found this rig on this web site a while back. use this for all my scratching work off rocks. think it works in a similar manner to a pulley rig. my hook and land ration has improved significantly since.

this is the web site, shows a whole host of rigs on it.

http://www.btinternet.com/~kevin.l.j.kn ... Runner.htm