ragworm ban??

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#1 Post by **m.b3** » Wed Sep 21, 2005 2:14 am

how would yee all feel about a ragworm ban from Nov. through to march/april(?) in club comps? the ban is suppprted by other clubs and as far as i know it is to allow for the recovery of bait beds.

x · #2 Post by x » Wed Sep 21, 2005 9:16 am

Couldn't hurt, but I'm not sure it would really help all that much either. I could be wrong here but wouldn't the vast bulk of rag dug be used by folk out for a lob of a weekend rather than used in match fishing?

I know sod all about the life cycle of rag (except how to end it with a hook... :lol: ), so does anyone know what time of year it breeds? This might be the best time to lay off using it.

However, to have any chance of success in protecting it you'll have to either get everyone to quit using it or have the professional bait diggers voluntarily give up digging and supplying it for that period. Maybe the bait diggers have their own 'closed season'? Bound to be in their interest not to kill the golden goose, although maybe they rotate the areas they dig or something similar already?

#3 Post by **m.b3** » Wed Sep 21, 2005 12:42 pm

i agree that the bait diggers get a lot of bait during the week- a lot! maybe the ban is more suitable for bigger clubs? say 60 people in an area diggin 60/70 rag for a comp each in the same area- it's a lot of worms then! don't know much about the life cycle though.

the places where i have dug for years is on it's way out. almost every time i am down there know there is someone diggin it. the ban will not affect any of these people!

#4 Post by **Don** » Wed Sep 21, 2005 12:58 pm

Every little piece of conservtaion helps. I would support it. I know it's not possible to get it in certain shops in Dublin during that period anyway.

Donal.

x · #5 Post by x » Wed Sep 21, 2005 1:09 pm

I stuck up a post about sustainable bait collection previously

http://www.sea-angling-ireland.org/bull ... php?t=3303

I gather in Norn Iron you need a permit from the local council to dig bait - ragworm anyway? Dunno if that helps control digging or if they have a closed season. Anyone from the North want to comment?

#6 Post by **Wes** » Wed Sep 21, 2005 1:24 pm

Well Don, personally speaking if you're any kind of a regular face to any of the Dublin shops during a supposed Rag 'close season', they'll always have some bait for you.
They may not stock as much, I dont know. But as I said, if you're any kind of regular, you'll never go without.

My view on a proposed ban would be supportive of course. I tend to vary my baits anyway so no problem going without for a spell.

#7 Post by **m.b3** » Wed Sep 21, 2005 1:28 pm

i have read this alright. i agree with it except for the part worm size. small worms work better for some species at certain time i deliberately dig them in preference of the larger worms(letting these fella's go). is it not better to leave larger worms due to them having greater reproduction capabilities?? when does a ragworm mature?!

Bigbill. · #8 Post by **Bigbill.** » Wed Sep 21, 2005 3:33 pm

Permits and licences were introduced as a by-law by some councils to prevent overdigging by commercial diggers Its not really enforced for pleasure diggers, but gives the council legal powers to stop overdigging.
Ragworm breed during the spring then die. Carrick harbour and other spots around Belfast lough are littered with swimming and dying ragworm at this time. Unfortunately they are too soft to use as bait.

Bill.

#9 Post by **m.b3** » Wed Sep 21, 2005 3:37 pm

i have seen the 'swimming rag' thing Bill. hundreds of 'em! i wish they'd do it in summer and keep a few of the swimmers out of the water.

ah yeah, they're sea-snakes...i wouldn't swim in there!

#10 Post by **MAC** » Mon Sep 26, 2005 10:28 am

First thing that came to mind on this one was the fishing I done in South Africa. There are maximum numbers on nearly all baits that can be dug / extracted from the sea and there are plenty of places where there are is no digging at all. Fines are huge and repeat offenders can be put in prison. My bro in law is a fecker for trying to work his way around any regulation, but when it comes to his bait he is always legit as it's just not worth getting caught and although I never seen anyone checking I was assured that if you were digging you would be checked.

But then we will never get a system like this in place in Ireland. There just doesn't seem to be will out there do anything to help get out coastline back to it's best. We could have some of the best fishing in the world, but instead some of us travel the world looking for good fishing.

Kev

x · #11 Post by x » Mon Sep 26, 2005 12:14 pm

"Seems farming them is doable.....

MARINE biologists have tricked ragworms into breeding at any time of the year. This means that the worms can now be farmed, which should protect the fragile ecosystems of beaches that are regularly dug up to harvest the animals for fishing bait.

Simon Rees and Peter Olive of the University of Newcastle studied the effect of day length on ragworm reproduction. Although they can live for several years, these marine worms put all their efforts into reproducing only once?after which they die. The timing of breeding is crucial, as the worms release their eggs and sperm into the water, where they mix and fertilise. If one worm spawns just a few hours early, for example, its reproductive cells will not meet those of the other worms and all its efforts will be wasted.

The researchers found that the animals have an internal clock that follows an annual rhythm, but they also rely on changes in day length to synchronise their reproductive efforts. By exposing the worms to 8 hours of light and 16 hours of darkness in a 24-hour cycle, Rees and Olive were able to stimulate the growth of their eggs. In contrast, simulating a long day slowed the development of the growing eggs.

Keeping the worms in cold water further enhanced the growth of their eggs. ""To get the strongest effect, we combine photoperiod and temperature,"" says Rees. ""In effect, we're creating winter or summer conditions."" The researchers have applied for a patent on their system, which they have already used to produce 20 tonnes of ragworms in just one year. Digging for fishing bait has a major impact on the ecology of beaches, says Rees, and bait diggers have already been banned from several sites."

#12 Post by **DAMIEN** » Mon Sep 26, 2005 6:26 pm

being honest here lads its not us folk its the pros that have like 5 people here digging an average of 500 ever time they are down.only it were sweeden(i think)you need a lisence to dig bait and each alf of the year one section is closed to allow recover.
only making my point 8)

#13 Post by **sevans** » Wed Sep 28, 2005 11:21 pm

no problem with rag here. ten miles down the road from me there is a very successful rag farm which has been breeding and selling rag for years. dragon baits maybe you have heard of them.
you can go in and hand pick the size rag you want from small kings which are the size of maddies or big monster worm.
very handy any size worm whenever you want.

#14 Post by **m.b3** » Wed Sep 28, 2005 11:34 pm

yeah i remember them from sea-angler. nice to be able to get the size you want. what prices do you pay? are they reasonable?

x · #15 Post by x » Thu Sep 29, 2005 8:55 am

I know somebody who is interested in starting to farm rag commercially in Ireland. How much are people paying on average per lb here?

#16 Post by **DAMIEN** » Thu Sep 29, 2005 12:42 pm

well i pay 6/7 eor for 20rag only when im absoutly deaprate

x · #17 Post by x » Thu Sep 29, 2005 12:57 pm

I think I paid 12 euro per pound last time. Steak would be cheaper and wouldn't try to nip as you put it on a hook.....good worm though.

#18 Post by **DAMIEN** » Thu Sep 29, 2005 3:51 pm

might also cath you a hammer head shark!!! :lol:

#19 Post by **sevans** » Thu Sep 29, 2005 5:54 pm

m.b3 wrote:yeah i remember them from sea-angler. nice to be able to get the size you want. what prices do you pay? are they reasonable?

price of king rag from the farm is £10 per lb, you get a lb of worms then they add the peat.

Rockhopper · #20 Post by **Rockhopper** » Thu Sep 29, 2005 8:26 pm

Sandman,

The guys you are talking about from Newcastle university started a business in the north east of England almost 20 years ago, its called "NorthEast Sea Baits" they breed rag-worm, the part about the cold water thows me a bit though. The one main factor that made it viable for them to start the business in the first place was the fact that Alcan had just built a smelter and they had this massive pipe that drained the hot water out to sea, it was this warm water on tap so to speak that made it easy for them to breed worm all year around.

The two guys are millionaires now, they sell a box of 20 worm for I think about £6.00 maybe more now. its not bad if you've nothing else to use, but not nearly as good as good wild rag.

One liberty these two did a hard time for from anglers around the country was, trying to get bait digging bans from councils, so they could get more business, once this got out anglers started to boycott them, the shops pulled these two guys back into line about it.

Anyways, the point being, rag-worm can be farmed, not so easy lug-worm, or peeler crab, it been tried without much joy.

Tom.