Special Protection Areas in Wexford-will it affect Angling?

[teacher]

I think when they talk about disturbing the birds they mean by shooting them, driving cars over them, that sort of thing. Not just walking past them or fishing.

Each year just North of Ballinoulart there's an area of beach markes out for nesting birds. Most people walking on the beach just walk around it but you still get idiots driving straight through it in cars and on bikes.

Fishing near birds isn't going to be any more disturbing than walking near birds, and they are not going ban people from walking between Rosslare and the Hook.

[jd]

Wexford Echo this week
http://www.wexfordecho.ie/news/story/?t ... n&cat=news

[corbyeire]

to all the people who voted for the green party i say this, you should have seen this coming and if you didn't, then my friend your very naive in thinking their for the greater good of the world. they base their politics on scare tactic much in the same way the church did in past times and economic destructive ideals.

ill probably get modded for going off topic here - but anyway ....

as many people as possible should go to the meeting and see what is actually being proposed and what exactly you are against or for

eric i am not a member of the green party but what you are saying is ridiculous - are any political parties in power for the greater good - no they are not - they are there for power and maintaining there power - politicians as problem solvers are pretty much useless

you are talking about scare tactics - were scare tactics not used by all parties in the run up to the last election - state of the health service for instance by numerous parties - the church used/s scare tactics as a control mechanism just as your government does etc.

i wonder eric who passed all the legislation to allow the trawler men dredge the bays over the last 15 odd years (equally your argument could be against FF/PD) - you dont seem to like it - but then if you want to do anything about it - it will go against no "economic destructive ideals"

you sound like you want your cake and it eric - so which is it

maybe go down to the meeting yourself so you know where you stand

[barry murphy]

rinnashark is holding it agm on tue night but will be sending a few people down from the club so if any one can send me on any info to read before going down would be greatful.

[weaverbeaver]

What we as anglers, hunters, walkers or whatever, consider a disturbance to wildlife bears no resemblance to what the IPWS see as a disturbance. Has anyone ever been asked to move from the sea wall on the North Slob in Ardcavan ? I recon many have and why? because the birds in the Sanctuary were being disturbed by an angler sitting on top of the wall.

So cop on lads this has the potential to put an end to fishing in the areas mentioned, if we do not object now it will be too late to address later on.

[jd]

This came up in 1993

http://historical-debates.oireachtas.ie ... 50130.html

Mrs. Doyle Mrs. Doyle

762

Mrs. Doyle: I thank you, a Cheann Comhairle, for allowing me a few minutes on the Adjournment this evening to raise an issue which is a cause of major concern to a large number of groups in Wexford, that is the designation [762] of Wexford Harbour as a special protection area under the Birds Directive. Wexford Harbour is an area of international importance for wild birds and, indeed, designation of SPAs is an obligation under the EC Birds Directive. I recognise both those points and the beauty of the environment and the habitat referred to as Wexford Harbour. It is an area that extends from the South Slob Wall to the North Slob Wall and from Wexford town to the Burrow and Raven Point.

The present users of Wexford Harbour area are up in arms — to put it mildly — over the proposal to designate the area an SPA. They fear that their present use and access will be curtailed. I do not share their degree of fear and I support the general thrust of the designation of an SPA. The Office of Public Works must stand chastised in terms of their PR ability and their communication skills with the public generally. As one who generally supports the preservation of our environment and these types of designation, I would urge the Minister to get expertise on his team, to enable skills to be developed and to bring the public with him as we go down this road. Over the years I hope more areas will be so designated and that we will be able to preserve the habitats and the environment for future generations to enjoy as we and our forbears have enjoyed.

The Minister replied to a parliamentary question from me last week in which he insisted that the relevant bodies were notified — harbour authorities, water sports and shellfish people, regional game councils, wild bird conservancy, BIM and the ESB. The main users knew nothing about it and received no notification. The Minister may have notified these organisations at national level but the information did not filter to the ground.

763 764

I am representing to the Minister tonight the fears of Wexford Harbour Board, Wexford County Council, Wexford Corporation, Lett & Co., Shellfish [763] Processors, Wexford Musselmen's Association, Wexford Fishermen's Association, Wexford Regional Game Council, Wexford Harbour Wildfowlers Association, Burrow GPA, Wexford Sea Angling Association, Wexford & District Sea Angling Association, Wexford & District Sea Angling Association, Wexford Harbour Boat Club, Wexford Action Group, Kilmuckridge Sea Angling Association, Wexford Cot Sailing Association, Wexford Sub Aqua Club, New Ross & District Sea Angling Club, River Slaney GPA, Wexford Coastal Action Group, the people of Rosslare, landowners of Hopeland and Burrow, Castlebridge Wildflowers, Wexford Boat owners and Boat charters, and Wexford Power Boat Association. The list is endless. He never notified the public representatives, the county councillors or the Oireachtas Members of this development. I would urge the Minister to help us to bring the people with him when it comes to protecting the environment rather than cause the confrontation which has ensued in this instance. Despite efforts at reassuring people, I have received letters from the Wexford Regional Game Council stating that the mussel fishermen in Wexford have been in contact with their Dutch colleagues who have informed them that they have had mussel fishing banned in SPAs where eider ducks are feeding. There are other cases in Germany and Holland where clasification of SPAs has had a detrimental effect on public usage and access. We do not want to hear words such as “may”, “shall be” or “might be” but rather absolute guarantees that present usage of the harbour for the mussel fishermen, the ring net fishermen, recreation, wild fowling, fishing, boating, walking and diving can continue. Can the Minister give assurances that aquaculture, fishing, boating and board-sailing can continue? Will he put in place a process of appeal allowing for a two way communication system so that the people [764] of Wexford will know the Minister's intentions and their fears can be assuaged?

Minister of State at the Department of Finance (Mr. Dempsey) Noel Treacy

Minister of State at the Department of Finance (Mr. Dempsey): I thank the Deputy for raising the matter. I am delighted at the opportunity to respond even though I thought I had clarified the matter last week. I acknowledge Deputy Doyle's interest and her pro-conservation stance in relation to matters such as this and her previous role in my position.

I am surprised she thinks people were not informed. The list of organisations she read out is exactly the same as the list of people I have informed. I do not intend to go through it again, except to say that every organisation to which she referred was informed. The only one she missed was the Rosslare Fianna Fáil Cumman——

Mrs. Doyle Mrs. Doyle

Mrs. Doyle: I do not know why.

Mr. Dempsey Mr. Dempsey

Mr. Dempsey: ——who are also very interested in this issue.

Under EC Directive 79/409/EC, generally known as the Birds Directive, it is mandatory on all member states to set up a network of special protection areas for migratory species and for threatened or vulnerable species.

Up to 1991, 20 areas have been classified in Ireland and we are under severe pressure from the European Commission to designate further areas. The Directive provides that within special protection areas, member states will take appropriate steps to avoid pollution or deterioration of habitats or significant disturbances affecting the birds.

The area of Wexford Harbour has been identified as an important area for birds as it exists and in the context of the current levels of activities.

765

I am quite satisfied to give every assurance that this designation will not interfere with current usage of the harbour. I would appreciate it if Deputy Doyle [765] would convey this to the people of Wexford.

There are already five special protection areas in the Wexford area — Wexford Wildfowl Reserve, Saltee Islands, Lady's Island Lake, Ballyteigue Harbour and the Raven. I am not aware of any problems arising in these areas from this designation.

In relation to future development, it is Government policy to resist any developments in any area which would significantly damage the environment. The effect of this designation in these areas is that planning authorities and other development agencies will be asked to look very carefully at proposals to ensure that no significant detrimental effects will arise. I stress that the concern is with significant detrimental effects — this does not necessarily become a no-development area.

I appreciate the concerns expressed by various groups and I note that most of the groups are those for whom a healthy environment is essential for their activities to continue. I believe that objections are based on a misconception of the effects of the special protection area designation. That is the reason I am pleased with the opportunity to clarify it and I hope the Deputy will convey this to all the groups concerned. I will be happy to arrange further discussions and explanations by my officials with the groups concerned if they so desire.

Finally I repeat my assurance that current levels of activities are acceptable in the context of this designation.
Dáil Éireann 431 Adjournment Debate. Wexford Harbour Special Protection Area Designation.

Who has called this public meeting? Do their interests necessarily coincide with anglers?

[teacher]

Has anyone ever been asked to move from the sea wall on the North Slob in Ardcavan ?

I think the Wexford Wildfown Reserve is partly private property (jointly owned by NPWS and BirdWatch Ireland). That might explain why people are asked to move. The North Slob situation is not the same as an SPA.

Here's what's prohibited under the Birds Directive:

(a) deliberate killing or capture by any method;

(b) deliberate destruction of, or damage to, their nests and eggs or removal of their nests;

(c) taking their eggs in the wild and keeping these eggs even if empty;

(d) deliberate disturbance of these birds particularly during the period of breeding and rearing, in so far as disturbance would be significant having regard to the objectives of this Directive;

(e) keeping birds of species the hunting and capture of which is prohibited.

It would be difficult to see how designation of an area as an SPA would prevent angling, any more than it would prevent walking.

It seems to me that designation of an SPA would actually be good for fishing, by protecting the marine habitat.


(By the way, if anyone was reading this thread earlier and was wondering what a "321" was, it's what the auto word censor replaces "SPA" with. Temporarily disabled. :!:)

[weaverbeaver]

Its not so long ago that Teacher thought the only way birds can be disturbed was by shooting them or driving over them, what planet are you living on teacher.. We live in a world full of do gooders who if they get everything their way people would not be allowed fish, shoot, hunt, drive cars, eat meat the list is endless. As I said before the only reason we have been asked to move off the Slob Wall is because of the disturbance to the geese and duck in the sanctuary and no one was shooting them or driving over them, just wetting a line



[/quote]

[teacher]

Not arguing about the slob wall weever, just saying that the SPA is a different situation. Guess we'll have to wait and see what's said on Tuesday to find out what's really going on.

[g.wyse]

Just reading through this, it might be helpful in this discussion and the areas affected(if posted already sorry :oops: )

http://www.npws.ie/en/ConservationSites ... AreasSPAs/

[corbyeire]

Its not so long ago that Teacher thought the only way birds can be disturbed was by shooting them or driving over them, what planet are you living on teacher.. We live in a world full of do gooders who if they get everything their way people would not be allowed fish, shoot, hunt, drive cars, eat meat the list is endless. As I said before the only reason we have been asked to move off the Slob Wall is because of the disturbance to the geese and duck in the sanctuary and no one was shooting them or driving over them, just wetting a line

[/quote]

those do gooders are a major problem - what they might be suggesting could help conservation of tidal areas - create nursery areas - and all round fishing might improve from the shore - youd never know

but maybe we should be sticking with the crowds and the current ethos of certain people getting their way (the do badders?!?) - where bays are dredged/netted/reclaimed/farmed/polluted all in one foul swoop - very fair on all aswell

as i said before see what who why your fighting for against

[pete]

Lough Swilly, Shannon Estuary, Tralee Bay, Blackwater Estuary all famous fishing areas and guess what.....all of them are SPA's :lol: All that ranting and raving("We live in a world full of do gooders who if they get everything their way people would not be allowed fish, shoot, hunt, drive cars, eat meat the list is endless" - that kind of childish stupid reply really bugs me :roll: ) Weaverbeaver about an SPA and you with the biggest beamer fleet in the country on your doorstep.....Jese it would be hilarious if it wasn't so desperately sad. The SPA's (remember there are lots of perfectly above board aquaculture farmers in SPA's and they don't get told to go away :!: ) do not threaten our angling if anything we should see them as an advantage - that green lobby is something we ought to be trying to harness for our own gains in dealing with the greater threats to the sport. Ok nature reserves are different and whilst i'm not familar with the slob wall i would have thought that ethical anglers wouldn't want to disturb the poor bloody birds for the short time when they are breeding.

Cant but think we as anglers will never get ourselves organised enough be able to engage the government bodies on the issues that really effect our fishing when we get so side tracked by the likes of this stuff. You can be rest assured that the vested interests will and indeed are already doing so.

[Security man]

Advert in Local "People Newspaper" on Wednesday last;

[img]http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u43/Garda_Siochana/Peoplepaper1.jpg[/img]

I don't know who placed this Ad with the Newspaper.
However, my reading of it, is that this could affect all leisure activities, including Fishing. :shock:

[roger de dodger]

down on kilcoole a section of beach is cordoned of where some birds nest some kind of turn i think the birdy crowd have a little caravan and watch the nests 24/7 their main worry is foxes eating chicks ,they are a nice bunch and will come down and have a chat if you set up at the breaches never said a bad word to me even though i,m a bit foxey meself :!:

[corbyeire]

Advert in Local "People Newspaper" on Wednesday last;

[img]http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u43/Garda_Siochana/Peoplepaper1.jpg[/img]

I don't know who placed this Ad with the Newspaper.
However, my reading of it, is that this could affect all leisure activities, including Fishing. :shock:

my reading of that poster is that certain parties with a commercial interest in the area want to bring in as many involved parties so as to appear to be a broad sweep of society/area - in going against the SPA designation

in my opinion the title negates any debate - by turning up you are against the SPA and you are by default even if you just walk in the area

the SPA will mean a lot of different things to a lot of different groups

this appears more to have to do with guaranteeing commercial rights than the rights to walk for instance in said area

[corbyeire]

Lough Swilly, Shannon Estuary, Tralee Bay, Blackwater Estuary all famous fishing areas and guess what.....all of them are SPA's :lol: All that ranting and raving("We live in a world full of do gooders who if they get everything their way people would not be allowed fish, shoot, hunt, drive cars, eat meat the list is endless" - that kind of childish stupid reply really bugs me :roll: ) Weaverbeaver about an SPA and you with the biggest beamer fleet in the country on your doorstep.....Jese it would be hilarious if it wasn't so desperately sad. The SPA's (remember there are lots of perfectly above board aquaculture farmers in SPA's and they don't get told to go away :!: ) do not threaten our angling if anything we should see them as an advantage - that green lobby is something we ought to be trying to harness for our own gains in dealing with the greater threats to the sport. Ok nature reserves are different and whilst i'm not familar with the slob wall i would have thought that ethical anglers wouldn't want to disturb the poor bloody birds for the short time when they are breeding.

Cant but think we as anglers will never get ourselves organised enough be able to engage the government bodies on the issues that really effect our fishing when we get so side tracked by the likes of this stuff. You can be rest assured that the vested interests will and indeed are already doing so.

agree with the above - and the points ring so true - how are we ever to get attention from politicians/councils/public when we so readily slate the crap out of each other - we need to get organised as one voice to guarantee our sport

[teacher]

Lough Swilly, Shannon Estuary, Tralee Bay, Blackwater Estuary all famous fishing areas and guess what.....all of them are SPA's

Dungarvan Harbour, large portions of Cork Harbour, Youghal, Ballymacoda, Ballycotton to Shanagarry, everything inside Bannow Island, everything between Cullenstown and Kilmore, Tacumshin, Lady's Island.

As far as I can tell, all of these are already designated SPA. Has anyone ever been told they can't fish in any of these SPAs??

Parts of Wexford Harbour and Slobs is also already a designated SPA and has been since 1998, as far as I can tell.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1998/en/si/0154.html

In fact, SAISAC is holding a competition inside the Wexford SPA this year ;)

[jd]

This meeting is being organised by Des Lett (Mussel Industry), and maybe others.

[Brian Cantwell]

Hi All,
It is interesting that the person who initially informed me about this proposal and meeting is a commercial mussel fisherman in wexford harbour. Are they only protecting themselves ?

My opinion has changed over the last few days after reading all the excellent posts on the subject. I have become sceptical about what the actual agenda for opposing this is?

I am definitely going to keep a low profile at the meeting and find out exactly what all this means and perhaps then i can give an accurate opinion.

[Security man]

I was thinking the exact same thing myself, Brian.

The Ad was definitely not placed by the dept., so I also suspected someone with a commercial interest....

Like I said in a previous post, sometimes 'crowds speak volumes', so a good turn-out would be of great benefit to whoever posted the Ad.
Hence the use of the word 'COULD' (...seriously threaten), rather than WILL.

I have a few contacts in the Talbot Hotel... be very interesting to see who booked & paid for the room. :shock: