Some discussion re Minimum sizes and Match scoring.

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#41 Post by **petekd** » Sat Apr 14, 2007 2:49 pm

Some good points there Mark and well put. Interesting to hear Sam Roches POV in this months Irish Angler too....

Rockhopper · #42 Post by **Rockhopper** » Sat Apr 14, 2007 2:52 pm

Just to clarify my take on this....I advocate that every fish caught should count for something, even if its only one point. The size limits do not need to be changed for that, in fact the size limits could go up some. This would mean n angler wouldnt spend 5 or 6 hours catching undersize fish and taking a blank card back to the table.

I personally dont hold with bait being restricted, the World Championships are a different thing to what we're talking about here....in the worlds every angler there is at the top of his game and as equal as can be.

Bending the rules? cheating is cheating in any language...if rules can be bent without breaking them, then IMHO its not the bender to blame but whoever introduced the poor rule in the first place.

Tom.

#43 Post by MC » Sat Apr 14, 2007 5:19 pm

i joined a club and started match fishing to learn and to test myself, i was unprepared for the first match which i wont be for the next match i attend. If you want to be the best, fight and learn then came back and beat the best, no one can be great right from the word go, all sport has some degree of preparation IE training. As for creating a level playing field, i would disagree with that as nothing can be level as if you have learned something and it gives you an edge then use it and win. the rules should stay as they are, the size for fish has already dropped by 10cm and its the anglers skill that gets the larger fish. Hook sizes should have a limit to help with the catch and release policy of this club, having everyone handed the same bait would be interesting for a one off event, just to see if the same anglers win, then we would all know that its the skill of these anglers to be able to use what knowledge they have to win matches even at bad pegs.

OK rant over

#44 Post by **BigPhil** » Mon May 07, 2007 2:36 am

well, for my take on it.
i believe that for undersize fish, 1 point should be given, but , once any counting sized fish is caught, then all undersize fish are void.
this helps in the event of no one catching a sized fish as you still get a result.
also, the guy who catches a sizable fish deserves whatever he gets on such a day.

it may be hard to police, but i really really do believe that baits should be limited, with some banned in comps, to make it a fairer playing field, especially at the likes of the master angler and provincial gold medals where team places are up for grabs.....at the ned of the day, once you make the team, then you are fishing to bait supplied rules.....

personally, i believe that as a federation (ifsa) we need to allow a lot of time for things like this at agms, with a maximum attendance there.
set a federation wide rule, that all clubs must adhere to.....orat least at provincial level....

conservation is another avenue to look at in this argument......if someone is seen basically ripping hooks out of undersized fish.....what is the penalty?

siding slightly off the subject, but as has already been mentioned, what reward is there for the guy who specialises in the smaller species?
no mini species record or specimen lists in the ifsa....something that could be looked at too?

also, with the format of the specimen fish qualifying weights....... each province has a completely different stamp of fishing....is it time that we as a federation set provincial qualifying weights for each species to make the system more realistic?

come on lads, how about for once, we all work together instead of having provincial arguments about it, get down to the nitty gritty and sort these things out to make the match scene in ireland as a whole something that we are proud of?

just have a look over all my ideas, they are a general improvement stratagy in my honest opinion to keep the federation stronger , attract some new guys, and also to keep the veterans etc more interested and still keep them in the game, and give the novice a fair chance at any prize available?

#45 Post by MC » Mon May 07, 2007 8:56 am

i like the idea of undersized not counting once you get a counting fish, some food for thought then big Phil

#46 Post by **stevecrow74** » Mon May 07, 2007 8:04 pm

m.b3 wrote:trouble lies with deliberate targeting of undersize fish? :?

dunno about that.. Galway Bay SAC have implied 5 points to undersized fish.. and 5 points only, considering that you'd need to catch 8 undersized fish to get the same points for one doggie it makes it worth trying for larger fish..
the only reason the 5 points was brought in is that one of the regular beaches where our competitions is held there is an abundance of smaller fish that wouldnt count in most comps, but there are quite a few bigger fish there.. just harder to get and persistence, skill and mostly luck come into play for getting them...

so its not really worth while targeting them, but at least there is a consolation of 5 points for getting one :)

#47 Post by MC » Mon May 07, 2007 9:28 pm

does S.A.I.S.A.C give points for turning up, even if you blank

#48 Post by **petekd** » Mon May 07, 2007 10:16 pm

Its fairly nominal MC, but points are awarded nonetheless. Its half of the final scoring cards MA points to a maximum of 10.

Drago · #49 Post by **Drago** » Wed May 09, 2007 12:55 pm

I have read this post with interest as we have very similar arguments over here in Scotland. Especially at inter club matches where the 'Match' orientated clubs want to fish to 20cm and the others want to fish to Fed size limits. Personally I don't like the thought of targeting u/s fish just to win a match and the way our current scoring system works that would be encouraged. ie points/fish and points/cm. For example a LSD is given 45cms in a match and there are a few of them around but not in heavy numbers then 1 lsd will get you 46 points whereas 3 20cm codling will get you 63 points. Anyone who wants to win the match is going to fish deliberately for small codling if they are around and I feel this is wrong.

I did though find some of the ideas in this thread interesting. I liked the one where u/s fish get fish points but not length points this gives some recognition for fish caught but mathematically discourages the deliberate targeting of loads of U/S fish to win a match.

#50 Post by **BigPhil** » Wed May 09, 2007 5:40 pm

another avenue is to measure dogs etc too and give 1 point per cm for all fish over 20cm....
measures at 1 metre are available, and most people carry a rod bag of some description where it could be placed while carrying etc