stupid rules

[dbrock]

your totally right pat if people are targeting these smaller fish, personally i dont and the guys i fish with dont, but def see your point there

[paul mason]

Forward ?
So forward is catching as many small fish as you can to win a comp
if you say so.
Isn't that the kind of near sighted approach that has fishing the way it is.
We want all the trawlermen etc to stick to sizes and quotas but not us "match fishermen"
we can catch whatever we want and we want points for it too so we can win some competition
does that sound odd to anyone else

Yes it is the way foward otherwise you will be sitting on the beach catching nothing and i should know.
And yes i do wear glasses the odd time.
I dont have any say in what the trawlermen do never had.
Yes it does sound odd very odd we could make a song out of it

[jd]

Lads, if you are unhappy with your club competition rules, you should bring it up at the agm or with the committee etc

[barry murphy]

well lads jd is right if you are happy or unhappy the place to bring it up to change it is your club AGM and maybe get a motion put in to your local council.
it is as sad state of affairs the way fishing is gone but it is and small fish are enevitable to be caught targeted or not but there is things we can do to help the handling buy anglers at competitions can be discraceful esp when fishing is hot and heavy (guilty myself when compeive side takes over).if there are small fish using lighter gear does help the fish i find too.

overall i am very mixed on small fish,pesonally i wish the bigger fish were still there and dont like targeting small fish.BUT fact fish of size are not there so do we give up fishing or go out catching small fish and get no points for them??its very hard when you have 6 or 7 fish not in and your nabour with one fish and it in beating you.

another thing is to fish for your country and go abroad and not have a hope cos there fishing for tiddlers and the irish been clueless to it.we are only catching up on the sizes they use on the continent for years weather good or bad.
the one thing the killing of undersize fish is a bad thing.we should all move to norway

[baldy]

I have been Sea angling for over 50 years and have seen the fish size limits drop from 12 inches to the now 20cm.

This has come to pass because of the fall in the fish stocks !

As I am sure everyone else has caught fish under 20cm on all hook sizes ,
I have caught small flounder and turbot on a size 1/0.

I would suggest a size 4 to be the minimum used .

This years Home International Shore in Wales the minimum hook is size 10.

I do believe that to bring young anglers into the sport the worst thing you can do is put them
on a beach in a comp and they BLANK !

Also is it not more skillful to catch say 10 fish at 20cm rather than 1 lucky fish at 30cm,
I think it is , in fact I am sure it is !.

[croppyboy]

i agree with eric and with denis no one targets us fish. i tried to use a 1/0 hook at last comp and pulled in a pin whitting . i have also fished comps were you get no points for undersize fish and have blanked because of this and theres nothing as bad as walking of a beach knowing that you have fished as hard as you can and have nothing to show for it as the were all undersize.

for kids learning you need to have points for undersize fish so that they dont come off beaches disapointed and dont want to come back again


fintan

[corbyeire]

its a hard one to call

i too have been in that position of catching undersized in comps with no points for it - its a killer after driving up 5 hour round trips, digging bait etc. and not get to hand in a card

i think its good you get something for undersized - maybe 5 points is too much - 2 maybe is better - at least you hand in the card and wont encourage targetting them

i think most people dont target undersized fish - but those whiting would wrap themselves round a 6/0 if they could

as has been said the international comps are all about this scratching game - and true those with those sort of aspirations need to practice - but i think most just want a bit of an edge instead of pleasure fishing again on a beach theyve fished loads of times before

my idea of a nightmare would be racing up and down the beach with trip pins for 4 hours!!!

[roger de dodger]

this is simmering away nicely some great points being made from all sides of the argument i must admitt i hadnt thought about international comps at all i wonder why also the mini whiting season seems very long this year for some reason dennis if eric had 2 points for every undersize fish i assume you would have won,you had more COUNTERS,so 5 points has to be too much for undersize fish! i think someone who targets bigger fish should win over someone who doesnt,and no i dont think eric should have won!not cos its eric sorry eric

[alby]

Very valid arguments both pro and anti U/S points.

A major factor is there is NO difference in tactics fishing for an 18cm & a 20cm fish (especially whiting). Size 4's, worm & fish and you will catch whatever hits your hook first. Then if you want to scale up to a size 1/0 or 2/0, you WILL miss plenty of counting fish. Unfortunately there are fewer bigger fish around these days and especially during Feb, March & April it can be very hard to pick venues where lads can catch a few fish.

No need to run around the beach like a madman either, when the fish are on, a decent rythmn will see you catch 50 fish in 5 hours fairly comfortably.

[sully]

hey lads

lots of debate on this subject and lots of good points. recently waterville sac in kerry have started to address the under size problems. what we have started is to count undersize fish at 5pts per fish. this is to prevent people with a handful of undersize blanking .this also gives the juniors a better chance of getting a score on the card thus preventing the need to draw prizes from a hat,

we also limit the amount of the undersize that count to 5fish this stops the targeting of the undersize. i suffered with catching loads of small fish before and i honestly think this system is pretty good

[roger de dodger]

good rule their ,once an angler gets 5 undersize he really has to target counters,last comp i fished i used size 3/0 semicircle hooks and managed to get one undersize even on them,last half hour i went for a pennel 5/0 3/0 and 2/0 top hook and got a doggy on a whole peeler ,i hate undersize fishing and just think this 5 piont rule is bad for the sport ,a few good fish where lost in the surf that day,i,m sure if the anglers had of being using bigger hooks those fish would have been landed lets face it your chances of getting a lip hooked 3 lb codling through a strong backwash isnt great with a size 4 match hook

[Labyrinthfish]

I have been an angler on the east coast for over 20 years now & have match fished for most of them...Fish size limits for competition fishing have always been a reflection on current fish stocks... when i started out it was 30cm a few years later 25cm and finally 20cm. In my opinion a further reduction to 18cm is badly needed !! It would greatly increase the bags of all anglers and eliminate the need for the 5pt undersize fish saga, at the end of the day we need to be seen to be green to the public.

I think the 5pt rule should only apply to the Master angler and the Fish offs as these are both qualifiers for the world championships.. the size limit for this years Worlds is 11cm wit all fish below 11cm awarded 1pt.

The lower the size limit and the greater number of fish available to count reduces the element of luck greatly. Which is the reason a lot of anglers favour bigger size limits.

As far as the argument gos for unintentional killing of small fish . No one would raise an eyebrow if an angler killed say a 1LB whiting would they now ??? even thou this fish is at breeding age & will produce over 1 million eggs per year . 60% of most fish never make it past the age of 1 ! why ?they are a huge part of the natural food chain... and the only reason the east coast has seen an explosion of whiting to plague proportions since 2001 is because the cod and dogfish etc etc numbers are at an all time low. its a well known scientific fact that it does a lot more damage to take a mature fish than a juvenile.... Just some food for thought on this one.

Getting back to match fishing .. are sport is in decline . looking at the average age of anglers at any comp , its plain for anyone to see we will not have a match circuit in 20 years unless we continue and increase the rate at which we recruit young anglers,if young anglers end up blanking half the time they go out because of size limits that are to high or because there small fish didn't count they WILL lose interest.IMO we should have a size limit of 15cm for are juv and junior anglers.

WE can debate all we like about this issue , the fact is ALL WE HAVE LEFT ARE SMALL FISH.
We need to fish for whats there now and not what was there in the past.
Hopefully in are lifetime will have reason to fish to 30cm again.

[petekd]

Cracking first post labyrinth, welcome to the site. I concur with pretty much everything stated there.

[wexjohn]

The most intelligent post ive read on this site , i am also in full agreement on its content.

[alby]

WE can debate all we like about this issue , the fact is ALL WE HAVE LEFT ARE SMALL FISH.
We need to fish for whats there now and not what was there in the past.
Hopefully in are lifetime will have reason to fish to 30cm again.

Great post.

[JOHN1]

fair play labyrinth

a propper post for a change.

all i can add is you took the words right out of my mouth

[oneillphil]

Just wanted to reply to Labyrinthfish's post which seemed to go down well, i don't wish to start an arguement or get personal but i don't agree with alot of it but each to their own.

In order to increase fish stocks you want to reduce the size limit ?? so catch and probably kill smaller fish and this will some how bring stocks up.

This will seem green to the public, if the public knew that a 200mm fish was a counter in a comp and you got points for fish under this size i'd say they would be appalled to be honest.

A 1LB fish may have had time to breed but the 50 small ones which are caught on size 4 hooks they have swallowed sure won't get that chance.

The sport is in decline because of the lack of decent fish and because people can't be bothered catching a load of small fish.

All that's left are small fish, so lets catch as many as we can so they can't grow up.
We are taking smaller and smaller fish and wondering why there are no big ones.

[dbrock]

i would like to see the people who disagree with the size limits maybe, put up what they think is an answer, to the problem to help encourage the junior anglers of today to keep it up, and help our sport grow,
or else this thread is just going to go round in circles

[roger de dodger]

as the rules stand someone with a few counters can be beaten by someone targeting undersize fish ,this cant be right as alby said 50 fish in 5 hours no problem ,but how many counters?why not just give one point per cm fish ,that way we will become the kings of match fishing ,i for one will just stick to pleasure fishing as i thought that was what our sport was based on the fun if i want to see tiddlers i,ll go to a pet shop,if i go fishing and someone askes me any luck i cant ever recall bragging about 15 cm whiting ,but hey if that floats your boat go for it with regaurd to young anglers i bring two teenagers out every now and then ,first session whiting and dab,second they witnessed 3 bass with one 8lb er ,third was left to them ?try for big cod /blank or back to bray harbour,they opted for the cod and got a blank,but still went home happy and still had a good time getting out from infront of the tv,fishing isnt just about catching for kids its the great outdoors ,and to run a comp for kids in the same manner as for adults they will soon lose interest anyway,fun is what kids like maybe thats why they have stopped taking up fishing

[Labyrinthfish]

In reply to oneillphil and being as diplomatic as possible... He was clearly not paying attention to the content of my post.

1. At no stage do i mention reducing size limits will increase fish stocks!! what i did say is it will
increase anglers bags at competitions and eliminate the need to count smaller fish.

2.The public have little or no interest in are sport, The very tiny minority who would kick up about
smaller size limits are known as extremists.

3.And the small fish taking size 4 hooks and dying will be taking size 4 hooks regardless of what ever size limit is in force!!

4.There are many reasons why are sport is in decline , and your opinion of nothing but small fish available to anglers to catch is exactly the reason that match fishing above all will prevail, no matter how small the fish get ,we will always have it. Its of little interest catching a 18cm fish pleasure fishing but during a match im not alone when i say its Bloody great!!

5.Yes all that's left are small fish so lets catch whats there.

6.We don't wonder why there are no big ones, we all know whats happened to them! so all we have left the majority of the time is to catch the scraps the trawlers leave us.

Regards,
Dave.